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688GUY
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2012
Posts: 47
Location: Fort Payne, AL
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 Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| crocteau wrote: |
| QRP wrote: |
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Does anyone make a drop spindle that lowers the front by less than 2.5 inches? I would like to keep my original non-adjustable beam but lower the front by about 1.5 inches. |
I've always wondered about that too. |
You can still find references to a company called JaTech that had manufactured 1.5 inch drop welded type 1 spindles in the '80s, but I've never seen a set.[/url] |
I had a set of one of the first JaTech spindles on my 66 Ghia. I haven't heard their name in decades. For the early '80's they were pretty high tech, but driving a car that's had the spindle snouts cut off and re-welded higher up was a tad risky...but I was young and dumb LOL! |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Does anyone make a drop spindle that lowers the front by less than 2.5 inches? I would like to keep my original non-adjustable beam but lower the front by about 1.5 inches. |
I have not heard of any drop spindles other than the 2.5" variety. For this reason I opted to add adjusters to my stock beam. This lets me keep my original equipment, retain the original beam width and suspension geometry, and allows me to dial in my ride height if a 2.5" drop turns out to be too low/high for my needs. If you opt to install adjusters make sure they are set at the midpoint of travel. The downside in your case is removal, disassembly, reinstallation, and allignment of the front suspension.
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Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| QRP wrote: |
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Does anyone make a drop spindle that lowers the front by less than 2.5 inches? I would like to keep my original non-adjustable beam but lower the front by about 1.5 inches. |
I've always wondered about that too. |
You can still find references to a company called JaTech that had manufactured 1.5 inch drop welded type 1 spindles in the '80s, but I've never seen a set.[/url] |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Does anyone make a drop spindle that lowers the front by less than 2.5 inches? I would like to keep my original non-adjustable beam but lower the front by about 1.5 inches. |
I've always wondered about that too. |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| QRP wrote: |
All alignment and camber adjustment was done in my garage with simple tools.
I am no professional mechanic by any means but if you take you time and be patient it'll all fall into place. |
I did a tape measure alignment in my garage and it doesn’t seem to pull one way or the other so I guess that’s good but how do you set camber correctly without a machine? I had mine on a lift and just set it so the wheel was plumb but I have a lot of oversteer when turning. |
I used a protractor / angle finder with a mag base for the camber setting and a tape measure with some flat bar stock bolted to the rotor to set the toe. Had the torsion arms as close to what would be final ride height. Also I had the beam in the car with just the steering box to get that in line with the steering shaft and properly located before all the other stuff was set.
I pre set everything to the best of my abilities with a pre assembly before installing it all in the Ghia.
https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Finder-Protractor-Protracter-Finding/dp/B01FOQK82Y#
Last edited by QRP on Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jeffrey8164 
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3823
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| QRP wrote: |
All alignment and camber adjustment was done in my garage with simple tools.
I am no professional mechanic by any means but if you take you time and be patient it'll all fall into place. |
I did a tape measure alignment in my garage and it doesn’t seem to pull one way or the other so I guess that’s good but how do you set camber correctly without a machine? I had mine on a lift and just set it so the wheel was plumb but I have a lot of oversteer when turning.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Does anyone make a drop spindle that lowers the front by less than 2.5 inches? I would like to keep my original non-adjustable beam but lower the front by about 1.5 inches.
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12865
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| didget69 wrote: |
Looks like the crossover rod would hit the top of tunnel on full suspension droop...
bryan |
Aww, c'mon, who is stupid enough to jump a Ghia? 
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
That’s the same car that I grabbed a pic from...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8589277#8589277
(Edit, upon closer look, it is not the same car, but the idea is the same.)
Look closely & you’ll see that they used heim joints (spherical bearing) with a bolt through both rod ends & the spindle, I don’t like this multiple sandwiching, ESPECIALLY since I doubt that the through bolt has any taper to match the original where the tie rod goes through, that’s why I suggested the Jeep tie rod & drag link. The drag link bolts into the cross over tie rod. |
Looks like the crossover rod would hit the top of tunnel on full suspension droop...
bryan
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Nice! I'm always amazed at how lowering and new wheels makes a Ghia looks so bad-ass without an expensive new paint job.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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I'm gonna add my 2 cents to this thread.
I just finished up narrowing the beam, torsion leaves & tie rods 4 inches on my 68.
Main reason was to fit a better tire size up front.
With it narrowed 4" I can now fit a 175/65r15 in front on a 5.5 rim no problem.
Took the Ghia on a long test drive yesterday through some cyn. roads and a few miles on the freeway.
Contrary to all I have read on thesamba I was amazed at the way the Ghia felt & handled during the test drive.
Now I'm not saying it was a slot car or 911 feeling but for 1968 VW technology I was very happy with the results.
[]
Current setup.
Up front. CB drop spindles, 15x5.5 Riviera's 175/65r15 & stock modified shocks for more travel.
Rear. 15x5.5 Riviera's 205/65r15 gr2 shocks
All alignment and camber adjustment was done in my garage with simple tools.
I am no professional mechanic by any means but if you take you time and be patient it'll all fall into place.
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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That's a great looking cat! Looks like my dear departed Rupert... 
I popped the tie rod end off the right spindle tonight (free tool rental at Autozone!) and discovered that it's actually binding on something. EMPI strikes again! I blame it on the Chinese.
Anyway, it wont turn fully to the left so that's what's preventing the driver's side spindle from turning apparently. So that's my mini-project tomorrow, grinding that off. I'll post some pictures so maybe I can help someone in the future. Glad I got the modified pitman arm anyway. So I might not need the cross-over after all but it does look pretty cool.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Has anyone ever looked into adapting this style of steering linkage to a type 1 ?
By flipping it around It looks like a promising way to get the short tie rod a little longer, but then again I'm not an expert.
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Yes, the gas tank needs to be raised. |
Well that's an easy fix. Question answered. Thanks. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12865
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Yes, the gas tank needs to be raised.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
The best way to correct the steering angles is to do a solid (adjustable) tie rod (Or crossover) from one spindle to the other with a drag link from the pitman arm to the drag link.
A Jeep Cherokee tie rod, tie rod end, sleeve, & drag link would be a good choice, then you would have to ream your spindles & pitman arm to fit the Jeep ends.
Here is an example of how someone else did this (Stolen from gallery.)
Using the Jeep one would eliminate the drag link connecting to the bottom of the other spindle.
I kinda like it, I might do it on the Ghiapet to eliminate the bump steer. |
I am NOT a suspension expert at all but isn't that crossover rod gonna hit the gas tank on up travel? |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Okay, sounds like a project. I would need to educate myself more to figure out the exact parts I would need. I'm not too familiar with any of that stuff.
I also just heard back from Old Speed about the pitman arm and he says it should definitely work to change the steering angle. He's been very helpful so I'm not throwing him under the bus. This situation is mainly a result of me being a complete doofus!
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12865
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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That’s the same car that I grabbed a pic from...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8589277#8589277
(Edit, upon closer look, it is not the same car, but the idea is the same.)
Look closely & you’ll see that they used heim joints (spherical bearing) with a bolt through both rod ends & the spindle, I don’t like this multiple sandwiching, ESPECIALLY since I doubt that the through bolt has any taper to match the original where the tie rod goes through, that’s why I suggested the Jeep tie rod & drag link. The drag link bolts into the cross over tie rod.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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| Back to top |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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I also found this on thesamba but I can't figure out where it came from or who posted. Looks like they flipped the tie rod on the passenger side? I'm curious if this can be done without reaming the spindles.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia Suspension:Lower, Narrow, Adjust - Custom & Stock |
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Thanks for the tip!
Why do I feel like this steering angle issue is the dirty little secret of narrowed beams that no one likes to talk about?!
I'm not sure about that longer tie rod clearing the tunnel, body, and gas tank but I'll certainly look into this solution.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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