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revolution337
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 372
Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/165306652370
Does anyone have any experience with this kit? Seems like a good price, allows you to piece together the rotors and calipers yourself. I have a B5 passat shell sitting in my driveway that I could steal the brake hardware from, if it will work with this kit.
edit: I see this is also for sale here on the Samba classifieds.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2413059
However, I still didn't find really any reviews from people who actually installed this kit.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8021771
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1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
2000 BMW Z3 roadster
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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This is the ebrake arm from a t4. The calipers are were the arm is on the Jetta calipers. That extra is what makes the Jetta’s work better.
If you want the electric e brake you can use the 06 Jetta caliper bracket and the latter ebrake caliper. The gas tank switch out of a Ford truck can be used to revers the polarity to on/off them.
There is more pad contact on the Jetta vs. T4.
K
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9628
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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I've seen this mentioned often. It does seem reasonable at first glance.
But here's my reasoning why I would never do a parking brake like this.
Maybe on a race car, short term, but not on a normal car.
The tiny lip of the pressure cups is where it all happens.
It's a dynamic seal.
Press and release.
How long can you leave brake pressure cups energized and their delicate, crucial lip pressed hard against the cylinder?
1 hour?
24 hours?
A week?
A year?
Would the lip 'adhere' to the cylinder wall at some point?
Do any OEMs use this method?
If it leaks could your van roll?
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3106
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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Look at this hydraulic line lock to serve as a parking brake
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763309
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83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| big swifty wrote: |
I have Jeff's newer kit as well. I run the Audi 200 adaptation up front and the BMW booster. My parking brake will lock up the rear wheels while traveling at a good clip. We used new cables and calipers.
When we installed the new rear kit, we couldn't get a good pedal. Ended up adapting and putting in a BMW MC in order to have good brakes. YMMV.
As much as I like having discs all around in my over-engined Syncro, I may have been better to keep everything stock. |
The E32?
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Butcher
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| When the park brake is stuck on, having none would be an upgrade. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32647
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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big swifty
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Formally in Republic of VT; now in Hollywood, FL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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I have Jeff's newer kit as well. I run the Audi 200 adaptation up front and the BMW booster. My parking brake will lock up the rear wheels while traveling at a good clip. We used new cables and calipers.
When we installed the new rear kit, we couldn't get a good pedal. Ended up adapting and putting in a BMW MC in order to have good brakes. YMMV.
As much as I like having discs all around in my over-engined Syncro, I may have been better to keep everything stock.
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Evan
1987 Vanagon Syncro // Westfalia pop-top graft // Factory new ALH. 11mm IP. AFN 110 RC 2,3,4 // S7 turbo// Titan P502's
2013 Golf 4d TDI. No mods. Yet.
[1991 Jetta coupe TD. Giles Superpump. Custom tall 5 speed. SOLD |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| Sodo wrote: |
The Jetta cables that I got at the junkyard were 2006 and are in perfect condition.
Very nice OEM quality.
I will try to grease them. |
FYI - Those Jetta Calipers are nearly identical to the T4 calipers except for the caliper bracket, same sized piston, but mount forward instead of behind the axle, but I believe the Jetta Brake Pad is slightly larger. Also, those Brackets you got from Jeff do fit the T4 Calipers, so they really offer great options. And give you the ability to use either of the Eurovan T4 rotors depending on if you have 15 or 16" wheels (280mm or 294mm). Really nice bracket he designed. I also like how the Jetta calipers use the same brake cable.
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9628
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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The Jetta cables that I got at the junkyard were 2006 and are in perfect condition.
Very nice OEM quality.
I will try to grease them.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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Believe me, my specialties are Transporters and MB 124s; both of which are known to rust from the bottom up in other markets. They just simply don't here in the PNW. Both will rust around the window perimeters and along the body seams, but that's it. I currently have a '73 Super Beetle here with intact original pans and front frame horn. The only rust is in the rear half moon ventilation ducts. That's virtually unheard of in most other Northern hemisphere markets.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16510
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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Suspension and underbody stuff just doesn't rust out here in the PNW, like it does in the rustbelt or Europe. That's a moot point.
Just use '01-'03 T4 rear brakes, and be done with it. They're proven to work great on similarly sized and weight rigs
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16893
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| Sodo wrote: |
You are saying the Volvo's electric parking brake locks the rear wheels at speed, overcoming the AWD too?
Interesting.
Dunno what the torque split controls are capable of but I would expect that the traction control system wouldn't allow anything (electric) to lock wheels.
These are just my un-educated assumptions. |
what i'm saying is with the right fuses pulled you can make cars do shit they were never suppose to do 
i get your point about staying mechanical but here in New England any VAG cable operated caliper has a very short life span and have always been poor in holding power...even on the cars they were designed for
i have only replaced 1 electronic caliper and it was due to accident damage. i have never had an issue with one since they got popular about 15 years ago or so.
cable operated.... seem to need cables and calipers about every 6 years here
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Crankey
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2659
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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In the rainy winter, on a hill waiting on a light I've definitely needed the hand brake to guarantee no back roll as I engage the clutch because the guy behind me was too close for comfort.
Can electric park brake do that ? Or are they just on/off with a button ? I've never had those before.. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9628
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| An electric actuator would be the same as a "new cable". |
not even close.
the electric parking brakes with the motor on the caliper is like a screw jack and if left unregulated (by the lack of a PBM or parking brake module) will blow the gear reduction in the motor assy to oblivion |
OK so that's changing to a different caliper, not just pulling harder on an Audi-200 caliper.
I tried increasing the holding force by lengthening the lever-arm.
All it did was overcome the auto adjust, (slipping inside).
Then you have to pull the brake again repeatedly to re-adjust.
I doubt there is any force that can make the Audi 200 caliper hold a 5,000 lb van. Maybe an empty 2wd tintop...
All neither here nor there - as the Audi200 brake is a serious downgrade for a Van.
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i may or may not have thrown the switch on a '19 XC90 doing 60mph. it may or may not have locked both wheels and left 2 dark skid marks on the pavement resulting in flat spots on the tires. a XC90 weighs 4400lbs
if i were to go disks in the rear, electric parking brakes would be the way i would go. i've worked with them long enough now to know they are far superior to cable actuated calipers. |
I agree there are cars where on/off parking brake could be OK.
But not for me, my preference is manual control of gearbox/clutch/brakes. 
You are saying the Volvo's electric parking brake locks the rear wheels at speed, overcoming the AWD too?
Interesting.
Dunno what the torque split controls are capable of but I would expect that the traction control system wouldn't allow anything (electric) to lock wheels.
These are just my un-educated assumptions.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16893
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| An electric actuator would be the same as a "new cable". |
not even close.
the electric parking brakes with the motor on the caliper is like a screw jack and if left unregulated (by the lack of a PBM or parking brake module) will blow the gear reduction in the motor assy to oblivion
i may or may not have thrown the switch on a '19 XC90 doing 60mph. it may or may not have locked both wheels and left 2 dark skid marks on the pavement resulting in flat spots on the tires. a XC90 weighs 4400lbs
if i were to go disks in the rear, electric parking brakes would be the way i would go. i've worked with them long enough now to know they are far superior to cable actuated calipers.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9628
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| Crankey wrote: |
| I ask him to sell me just an 'update' kit |
That's an interesting idea....
| leecat wrote: |
Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread,......
instead of fighting with cables and adjusters and springs, |
If you do read it you will find members throwing cables at the problem and nobody showing the parking brake holding (well). An electric actuator would be the same as a "new cable". Ho help at all when the internal caliper mechanism doesn't work.
Electric would be nice for a street van, you could delete the pull-handle from the floor!
I wouldn't use electric for off-roady use.
I want to feel and modulate the cable tension manually (for different(ial) reasons ).
Provided it actually brakes the wheel......
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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leecat
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2012
Posts: 773
Location: Regina
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread, but I've found it far easier to install Audi electric rear brakes if you have a rear disc setup. The Audi electric calipers bolt straight up to one mounting hole (if you're running A3 - and I suspect A4 discs) and only need a small bracket fabbed up to attach to the other mounting hole. Brake line fittings are identical VW-to-Audi.
Then instead of fighting with cables and adjusters and springs, it just requires a wire to a momentary switch on the dash - hold that switch down and the e-brake locks right up. Brush the switch gently and you can set the pressure on the rear brakes by feel.
If you're running 14 inch rims, the Audi calipers need to have about 1/8" ground off the 'hump' at the back of them to clear the rim. Very simple to install and can be done in less than a day - IF you already have rear discs, of course. |
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Crankey
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2659
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rear disc upgrade = NO parking brake! |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| Crankey wrote: |
I bought burlys kit about 6 years ago…….
Any duplicate parts can go on the spare part shelf I spose but I like the catharsis of tossing into the scrap metal bin too. |
Yeah that was the same Audi caliper that SmallCar used. The cable actuator mechanism inside was simply no good. The Audi people hated them too. Poor research on SmallCars part, then “oops again” by Burley, which suprises me a little. Burley eventually flushed his Audi kit, offering a T4 kit a couple years ago. Smallcar still offers this Audi kit. https://smallcar.com/vanagon/wheel-tire-brake-and-...brake-kit/
I bought Samba member Jeff’s Jetta brackets ($250) and got some 2006 Jetta calipers and OEM cables from the junkyard ($107). Haven’t bought discs yet (288?).
Jeff says the Jetta calipers look bigger than the T4s. But I haven’t seen T4s. They are much bigger than the Audis. I’ll take pics when I bin the Audis.
Not sure what to do with my SmallCar disc kit. Agreed hucking it into the bin could be cathartic but it would always bug me that some flatlander could use it. The calipers can be painted red and the handle goes clickety-click. 
PS …….RIP dgbeatty!! |
That's totally true and I don't like tossing stuff into bins Im usually pulling stuff out of.
I could contact Burley and ask him to sell me just an 'update' kit but I'm concidering rolling this fix into the engine swap and I don't want the folks working on it to deal with a bit of this and a piece of that...just tear it all off and use the complete kit in the box. Well except for the heavy springs dgbeatty is showing there...it never stops does it.🙄 |
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