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JiI
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2006
Posts: 1845
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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Looking at 235/75/17 all around for a fireroad-runner baja. Roughly 12" suspension travel.
What do you think of the size?
Running 17 x 7 wheels as it's going to be running 5x4.5 custom hubs with big brakes.
Jeff |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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On my Baja, I've been running Yokohama 720 7.00-15 Xtra Traction. The last set were shaved shoulders. Race car take-offs. The current ones are also race car take-offs, but Highway tread. Should last a lot better in dual purpose driving. I too run 18psi or less on those fronts. They're designed for heavy trucks, not lightweight Baja Bugs.
Actually for most mild Baja Bugs used primarily on pavement, I recommend 215-75 radial fronts with a coarse pavement tread. Possibly All Terrains. For the rears on such cars, I recommend 30x9.50-15 radials. Again Coarse pavement tread tires or All Terrains. For most purposes, Mud Terrains on a Baja Bug are all about the "Look". Some 31x10.50s will rub on the ends of the torsions and on the inner fender panel too. In fact, with stock trailing arms, tires bigger than 30x9.50s become the upper travel limiters.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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riva
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2012
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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Speaking of pounds. Does there exist a spreadsheet which shows tire weights?
This is my nightmare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDeNv5XcMo8
But of course the vehicle weight and specifics are pretty much as opposite as one could get versus our vehicles, so there is that.
I went with Goodyear Wrangler 235/75r15 which were about 30.5 pounds each. They seem to run around $100 to $110 each at this time. |
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PhillipM
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010
Posts: 595
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| J-Gaz. wrote: |
wow - 18lbs is pretty lean. |
Not that lean, I run 18 rear, 12 front for race use on the rail, and mine is heavier than most.
Sidewalls on most off road tyres are far too hard for lightweight baja's and buggies. |
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VTbaja
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2023
Posts: 4
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| Does anyone have any experience with how loud the Yokohama 720's are on the street? Thanks! |
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J-Gaz.
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007
Posts: 613
Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| J-Gaz. wrote: |
Considering turning my 70 into a Highwheel class 11 "Style"
Been reading through, and it sounds like Bias Ply is great for the dirt, but too squirrely on the Highways.
But great for making turns in the sand/ mud.
Is that basically the difference? Bias ply are squirrely ?
I'll be mostly street driving, maybe 5% forest service roads to trailheads, and once or twice a year on ocean beaches.
Seems like everything I've read a good 235 / 75- 15's radial would be my best option running stock fenders and just thing spindles with a couple of notches in the rear - all else being stock. |
My take on it is Bias tires are a little more stiff and that’s good on the front to keep you steering more directional. The 7” x 28” that is common on the bajas seemed to be mostly available as a bias ply with like a 6 or 8 ply sides. I have some Yokohama 742 that are similar but are modern radials. I think the radials are better modern choice just make sure they have a stronger side wall . I had some light truck radial tires on he front of mine and they sucked cause the steering was squishy or soft . That said The stiff tall front tires with high air pressure do track and veer making them seem squirrely I run mine as low as 18lbs on the highway |
wow - 18lbs is pretty lean.
Okay, good to know. I'll be mostly highway with some forest service roads here and there.
I always thought Bias plies were softer in general and easier to get sideways - but maybe that's a tall tale.
_________________
1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| J-Gaz. wrote: |
Considering turning my 70 into a Highwheel class 11 "Style"
Been reading through, and it sounds like Bias Ply is great for the dirt, but too squirrely on the Highways.
But great for making turns in the sand/ mud.
Is that basically the difference? Bias ply are squirrely ?
I'll be mostly street driving, maybe 5% forest service roads to trailheads, and once or twice a year on ocean beaches.
Seems like everything I've read a good 235 / 75- 15's radial would be my best option running stock fenders and just thing spindles with a couple of notches in the rear - all else being stock. |
My take on it is Bias tires are a little more stiff and that’s good on the front to keep you steering more directional. The 7” x 28” that is common on the bajas seemed to be mostly available as a bias ply with like a 6 or 8 ply sides. I have some Yokohama 742 that are similar but are modern radials. I think the radials are better modern choice just make sure they have a stronger side wall . I had some light truck radial tires on he front of mine and they sucked cause the steering was squishy or soft . That said The stiff tall front tires with high air pressure do track and veer making them seem squirrely I run mine as low as 18lbs on the highway |
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J-Gaz.
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007
Posts: 613
Location: 253 Then, Now 206.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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Considering turning my 70 into a Highwheel class 11 "Style"
Been reading through, and it sounds like Bias Ply is great for the dirt, but too squirrely on the Highways.
But great for making turns in the sand/ mud.
Is that basically the difference? Bias ply are squirrely?
I'll be mostly street driving, maybe 5% forest service roads to trailheads, and once or twice a year on ocean beaches.
Seems like everything I've read a good 235 / 75- 15's radial would be my best option running stock fenders and just thing spindles with a couple of notches in the rear - all else being stock.
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP |
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Bennym777
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2013
Posts: 223
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| I have 7x15 LT truck tires all round on my buggy. Would I get a smoother ride going with normal off road tires like BF Goodrich all terrain? Just thinking they may be softer rubber and sidewalls? |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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Are you going to beef up your suspension to match? Have you read all the material above before you ask this question? Pretty much answered above. I just stated above an answer to your question.
| Quote: |
dustymojave wrote:
I'm not going to tell you an "ABSOLUTE".
The widest I go for on the front of a VW-based buggy or Baja is 7.00-15 on a 4" wide rim. And I prefer stock 3-3/4" back space for that 4" wide rim. Like a Centerline "bubble" rim.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
In more common sizes in places like Nebraska, try a 215-75 x 15 tire. All-Terrain ("A/T") is good. Local Walmart had a good looking Douglas in that size a while back at a good price. So is a 6.70-15 5-rib DOT Implement tire. (Load Range B or C. NOT Load Range D or E.)
It's a buggy. NOT a lifted Chevy 4X. |
My preference for narrower tires on the front of a Baja is not about looks. It's about experience. There is more weight on the back of a Bug. Wider tires on the back affect the handling in a positive way. They reduce oversteer. Wide tires on the front lead to trouble with scrub radius. Increased steering effort. More damage to front end and steering components. Need for power steering. Need for anti sway bars all around (and nobody makes them for the back of Bugs). Trouble with tires rubbing and fender/body clearance. Vastly increased turning radius. And a number of other issues. I don't recommend it.
My Baja has 7.00-15s on the front and 30x 9.50-15s on the back and the spare is a 7.00-15. It will serve just FINE on the back if needed. Our offroad race team uses 7.00-15 spare tires for the 5/1600 Baja Bugs, 1600 Buggies and Class 9 Buggies. The 30x9.50-15s rub on the inner wheel wells in the back. Bigger tires will limit suspension travel unless you go with bigger trailing arms.
You CAN go with 33s all around. Be prepared to deal with the issues mentioned above.
| Quote: |
| It's a buggy. NOT a lifted Chevy 4X. |
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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law.jrthompson
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2021
Posts: 1
Location: Santa Maria, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| Hoping to revive this board for a little help. Building a bug and currently torn on tire size and rim width. Tire height will either be 31" or 33". It will be powered by a Honda motor and supported by a built up bus transaxle, so should be able to push either size. I want to run same size tire and rim all around for ease of a carrying a spare. Looking at either a 5" or 6" wheel and was hoping to get some opinions and or pictures of similar wheels. |
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Wheeljack
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2020
Posts: 99
Location: Utica, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
I'm not going to tell you an "ABSOLUTE".
The widest I go for on the front of a VW-based buggy or Baja is 7.00-15 on a 4" wide rim. And I prefer stock 3-3/4" back space for that 4" wide rim. Like a Centerline "bubble" rim.
In more common sizes in places like Nebraska, try a 215-75 x 15 tire. All-Terrain ("A/T") is good. Local Walmart had a good looking Douglas in that size a while back at a good price. So is a 6.70-15 5-rib DOT Implement tire. (Load Range B or C. NOT Load Range D or E.)
It's a buggy. NOT a lifted Chevy 4X. |
Thanks man! I'll check those out. |
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Stock Steve
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2005
Posts: 1963
Location: My Left Nutmeg State
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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I'm not going to tell you an "ABSOLUTE".
The widest I go for on the front of a VW-based buggy or Baja is 7.00-15 on a 4" wide rim. And I prefer stock 3-3/4" back space for that 4" wide rim. Like a Centerline "bubble" rim.
In more common sizes in places like Nebraska, try a 215-75 x 15 tire. All-Terrain ("A/T") is good. Local Walmart had a good looking Douglas in that size a while back at a good price. So is a 6.70-15 5-rib DOT Implement tire. (Load Range B or C. NOT Load Range D or E.)
It's a buggy. NOT a lifted Chevy 4X.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Wheeljack
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2020
Posts: 99
Location: Utica, Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| So what should the absolute widest be for the front before needing to go with a stronger spindle? I'm more concerned with tire size availability in a pinch than anything else. It's one thing to be able to order tires online, its wholly different when you need to replace a tire when riding and you get a non-repairable hole in the tire or what have you. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| Wheeljack wrote: |
| Also, is it beneficial to run a wider tire in back (supposedly running a wider tire acts like an anti-sway bar) than the front and are there any issues just running the same size tire front and rear on a Warrior frame with a swing axle? |
There are a number of reasons to use a bigger rear tire than front on a tube frame buggy based on VW components.
1 - The rears do all the push work
2 - The rears carry the vast majority of the load. Most of the car's weight is at the back of the car. INCLUDING the passengers.
3 - Wider tires on the front apply road forces to the spindles and steering mechanism with a LOT more leverage and make it MUCH more likely to damage the front suspension. Bend/break spindles, tie rods, rod ends, steering box, etc. Stock 4" wide front rims with narrow tires place the loads on the spindle about the middle of the spindle shaft. 30 x 9.50 tires on 6" or 8" wide rimes put those loads out past the end of the spindle shank.
4 - Steering forces go WAY up with wide front tires and rims. That's when people start feeling a need to add power steering.
5 - Turning radius goes WAY up with wide front tires and rims. My Baja with stock front rims and 165 tires can turn a U-turn in my street with a few feet left over. With the Centerlines with only a 3.5" wide rim but more offset, I can only get a little more than 1/2 of that U-turn.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Wheeljack
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2020
Posts: 99
Location: Utica, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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At least for the Autometer electric speedometers, the sender units require a CV axle. I have a swing axle, so I'll have to get either a different tooth count to get an accurate speedometer or, that transducer. Found the same transducer cheaper elsewhere.
Also, is it beneficial to run a wider tire in back (supposedly running a wider tire acts like an anti-sway bar) than the front and are there any issues just running the same size tire front and rear on a Warrior frame with a swing axle? |
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Wheeljack
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2020
Posts: 99
Location: Utica, Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| Wheeljack wrote: |
| I'm kind of surprised no one brought up this gear ratio calculator http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html might not be the most popular one used, since it's mostly for 4x4 setups. Also, anyone try the EMPI Electronic Speedometer transducer kit? I'm wondering if it'll help to get an accurate speedometer reading. Get an electric speedo and then calibrate it to the new tire size. https://www.jbugs.com/product/16-9290.html Could help with the odometer and mileage calculations than trying to figure out the tire size difference by hand. |
That item seems a little pricey for the job , you could get a speedometer for less. I think most aftermarket speedometer even the old ones can be set to calibrate your actual speed. Mine does. Usually by using road markers and a button. Lot of people using gps now. And that unit still has the cable . I think the latest thing now would be to have a wired transducer instead of the cable. |
Glow shift sells a kit for $20 for a mechanical to electronic speedo. Found the same EMPI kit elsewhere for $125. Most of the Hall effect ones are for Ford, GM, and Dodge transmissions.
My donor buggy has an original VW mechanical speedometer. I haven't found much for different kits to calibrate for larger tires. So I was thinking going the electronic speedometer route, but most of what I'm seeing, are not for classic VW. I'll keep searching though. |
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dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| Wheeljack wrote: |
| I'm kind of surprised no one brought up this gear ratio calculator http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html might not be the most popular one used, since it's mostly for 4x4 setups. Also, anyone try the EMPI Electronic Speedometer transducer kit? I'm wondering if it'll help to get an accurate speedometer reading. Get an electric speedo and then calibrate it to the new tire size. https://www.jbugs.com/product/16-9290.html Could help with the odometer and mileage calculations than trying to figure out the tire size difference by hand. |
That item seems a little pricey for the job , you could get a speedometer for less. I think most aftermarket speedometer even the old ones can be set to calibrate your actual speed. Mine does. Usually by using road markers and a button. Lot of people using gps now. And that unit still has the cable . I think the latest thing now would be to have a wired transducer instead of the cable. |
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Wheeljack
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2020
Posts: 99
Location: Utica, Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Tires Tires Tires |
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| I'm kind of surprised no one brought up this gear ratio calculator http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html might not be the most popular one used, since it's mostly for 4x4 setups. Also, anyone try the EMPI Electronic Speedometer transducer kit? I'm wondering if it'll help to get an accurate speedometer reading. Get an electric speedo and then calibrate it to the new tire size. https://www.jbugs.com/product/16-9290.html Could help with the odometer and mileage calculations than trying to figure out the tire size difference by hand. |
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