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Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:06 am

A little background on this:

Prior to 1971 VT didn't require titles on automobiles. You could walk into the DMV with a bill of sale written on a brown paper bag. If the State Police VIN verification matched the bill of sale, you were in.

VT doesn't title vehicles older than 15 years old. Going back about 30 years of so there was a Conference of New England Governors. One of the issues they uniformly resolved was no titles required on vehicles over 15 years old.

Except now NH requires titles on vehicles newer than Y2K. And it's difficult to prove residency in NH.

Maine will happily register your out of state vehicle. The hitch is you need to go down to "your" local town clerk to get your tags. If it's that important to you it's very easy and pleasant to fly in and out of Portland. Eat a lobster while you're there.

Some information you might find useful:

I reckon Vermont has the second most dysfunctional economy in the U.S.. They don't even have enough revenue to install fresh potholes in the roads every summer. Here is the thing... the "out of state" registration thing and its associate taxes have been a big cash cow for Vermont. Vermont, cows, cash cow, get it? :lol:

Other trivia that may or may not be important:

Phil Scott the Republican governor of Vermont races an ACT Late Model at Thunder Road. Let's not get political here. Phil identifies as Republican so I mentioned it. Let's leave it at that.

Montpelier is the capitol of Vermont. Vermonters may not refer to Montpelier as simply Montpelier. They refer to it as Barre / Montpelier. The Barre / Montpelier area includes a few other villages as well. I mention this because Thunder Road, the track where Phil Scott races is on Quarry Hill in Barre. Barre is the next town over from the capitol.

Get it? The governor of VT is a motorhead. He's one of us!

So: If you don't want Vermont to close the so- called "loophole" drop Phil Scott a call tomorrow. Say,

"I'm a motorhead and I love Vermont."

Then explain why.

Maine issues semi- permanent tags for over the road semi trailers. If Maine can issue tags for truckers "everywhere else", Vermont can send us little green plates for our old VWs. 8)

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Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:16 am

crukab wrote: I just found out "the Vermont thing" is over. Too bad people took advantage of a good thing to register stolen cars. I wonder if you can re-up your registration when it runs out if you live outside Vt.? I'm just happy they started issuing TITLES a few years back, it's not cheap, they charge 6% of the NADA blue book value, but you get a Title after jumping through a few hoops.

I'm in Vermont also. Are you saying we can request a title on vehicles older than 15 yrs old? I registered a Ghia a year ago - no title issued or offered?

Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:10 am

Marcdeb wrote: crukab wrote: I just found out "the Vermont thing" is over. Too bad people took advantage of a good thing to register stolen cars. I wonder if you can re-up your registration when it runs out if you live outside Vt.? I'm just happy they started issuing TITLES a few years back, it's not cheap, they charge 6% of the NADA blue book value, but you get a Title after jumping through a few hoops.

I'm in Vermont also. Are you saying we can request a title on vehicles older than 15 yrs old? I registered a Ghia a year ago - no title issued or offered?

You can request a title from Vermont but you won't get one on an older vehicle. You can demand it says "Live Free or Die" on your tags. They won't do that either. New Hampshire will.

I propose the new VT plates say "Spend money and go back to Massachusetts!" :twisted:

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Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:48 am

Come to Vermont. Bring jobs.

Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:31 am

I heard that the "Vermont Loophole" has been closed, as in, gone, now. Anybody able to confirm or deny?

Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:03 am

Dave wrote: I heard that the "Vermont Loophole" has been closed, as in, gone, now. Anybody able to confirm or deny?

Posted a few weeks ago, and the whole reason this thread has been revived.

cdennisg wrote: A new twist...

Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:11 am

And yet another twist on the topic. Looks like West Virginia might be getting into the game.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:59 pm

heimlich wrote: crukab wrote: I just found out "the Vermont thing" is over. Too bad people took advantage of a good thing to register stolen cars. I wonder if you can re-up your registration when it runs out if you live outside Vt.? I'm just happy they started issuing TITLES a few years back, it's not cheap, they charge 6% of the NADA blue book value, but you get a Title after jumping through a few hoops.

You live in Vermont. I was under the impression you could still do it if you were actually a citizen of Vermont?

Oh yea, I can still register all the cars I want, and get titles. I'm just bummed for the fellow VW people that can't use this as a way to register their VW.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:03 pm

crukab wrote:
Oh yea, I can still register all the cars I want, and get titles. I'm just bummed for the fellow VW people that can't use this as a way to register their VW.

Maybe you can be the goto guy for everyone. Does the car have to be physically present in Vermont? Set up a business.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:19 pm

Marcdeb wrote: crukab wrote: I just found out "the Vermont thing" is over. Too bad people took advantage of a good thing to register stolen cars. I wonder if you can re-up your registration when it runs out if you live outside Vt.? I'm just happy they started issuing TITLES a few years back, it's not cheap, they charge 6% of the NADA blue book value, but you get a Title after jumping through a few hoops.

I'm in Vermont also. Are you saying we can request a title on vehicles older than 15 yrs old? I registered a Ghia a year ago - no title issued or offered?

Yes Marc, you can get a title for your car in Vermont:
https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehicle-title/exempt-title
Just a few hoops to jump through, but totally do-able.

Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:37 pm

crukab wrote: Marcdeb wrote: crukab wrote: I just found out "the Vermont thing" is over. Too bad people took advantage of a good thing to register stolen cars. I wonder if you can re-up your registration when it runs out if you live outside Vt.? I'm just happy they started issuing TITLES a few years back, it's not cheap, they charge 6% of the NADA blue book value, but you get a Title after jumping through a few hoops.

I'm in Vermont also. Are you saying we can request a title on vehicles older than 15 yrs old? I registered a Ghia a year ago - no title issued or offered?

Yes Marc, you can get a title for your car in Vermont:
https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehicle-title/exempt-title
Just a few hoops to jump through, but totally do-able.

I did not know that. Learn something new today. Although only for Vermont residents. Although I can't think of why someone would pay for a title if the registration already serves as a title though? If these non titled cars are sold outside Vermont, the buyer's state should recognize the registration as a title?

Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:44 pm

Marcdeb wrote: the buyer's state should recognize the registration as a title?

in a perfect world, yes

CT is a no tile state on old junk so you sell on a BOS and the old registration but I have heard people selling legit (decades owned) cars without a title and the buyers having huge issues with DMV

Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:31 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: Marcdeb wrote: the buyer's state should recognize the registration as a title?

in a perfect world, yes

CT is a no tile state on old junk so you sell on a BOS and the old registration but I have heard people selling legit (decades owned) cars without a title and the buyers having huge issues with DMV

Same state or outside DMV?

Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:50 am

-----This is not looking good.-----

Exempt Title Affidavit
VT-025
To apply, as a Vermont resident, for an exempt vehicle title on a vehicle that is more than 15 years old.

----You can just 'sign' that you are a Vermont resident, but you need an in person visual inspection of the VIN----

3) A visual verification of vehicle identification number (VIN) on DMV form VT-010 is required

https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-010-VIN_HIN_Verification.pdf

----In regards to West Viriginia, I found the titling part of the site they created, made an account, and then it told me to contact my administrator to gain access (This was after the normal e-mail verification code, which I completed)

It states at the top, before signing on or registering-----

This system is for use by authorized Dealerships and License Services to title vehicles with the West Virginia Division of Motor Vehicles.

-----Looked up in my state, Washington, requirements to become a dealer, it is not easy aka 30,000 in bond as one of the requirements

They have buttoned this up good

:/

Thus, from what I can see, you are either bringing vehicle that needs to get title to Vermont to be inspected or getting in with a dealer or becoming a dealer in your state

Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:15 am

I would think that if Vermont made the decision to no longer register and/or title cars that are out of state, they will certainly have thought out any round about methods that people can come up with to get around the new policies. As far as the residency requirement, I would be surprised if they didn't require "proof" of residency, such as a utility bill showing name and address.

As to VIN verification, under normal circumstances here in Vermont, we can take the car to DMV for that or, and much easier, we can take the car to any local police department in the state and they will fill out a form for the DMV. Either way, it doesn't much matter if they enforce the residency requirement.

There is one option that might work for a few. If someone has family in VT, someone could transfer ownership to a family member and then later transfer ownership back. Vermont allows the transfer of a vehicle within family for $1 which in effect, avoids the sales tax on the transfer.

Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:42 am

edited out my curtness

Once again, need an in person VIN inspection, transferring a vehicle to a family member in Vermont, would still need an in person VIN inspection

Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:50 am

scubasteve321 wrote: I can tell you didn't read the supplied links or documents and are simply surmising.

Once again, need an in person VIN inspection, transferring a vehicle to a family member in Vermont, would still need an in person VIN inspection

Yes, I did say in the 2nd paragraph:

As to VIN verification, under normal circumstances here in Vermont, we can take the car to DMV for that or, and much easier, we can take the car to any local police department in the state and they will fill out a form for the DMV. Either way, it doesn't much matter if they enforce the residency requirement.

Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:46 pm

As far as I know, and what I did, was to go to a Notary w/ the form, the Notary checks you ID, in my case, my Driver's License, and sign's/stamps the form, proving you're a Vermont resident. I use my Bank, where most of the tellers know me, and are Notaries. I know the local cops, most of the cars (Old Vws) are non-op, the come to my house write down the VIN, check it through the state to make sure it's not stolen, and they sign off on it. The biggest pain is paying the 6% Bluebook value tax, usually $600-$850.

Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:29 am

The Vermont loop hole is completely closed.

Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:14 pm

I wonder if many criminal deals made it through the system by way of the Vermont loop hole over the years? Or did it mostly serve as a legitimate way to register cars with lost titles? If someone knew they had a stolen car, did it offer an easy way to simply change the VIN and register the car in Vermont? What other scenarios did the Vermont loop hole facilitate?