First Engine build advice

[lner JP]

Looking to build my first engine this winter but would like to start collecting parts now ready for the build, so would like advice / opinions.

I have a UK limited edition GT Beetle, which I belive is basically a Basic Beetle 1600 in the USA (Torsian bar front beam, 1600 twin port with 3.875 final drive gearbox). And am looking for a reliable not too high reving torquey motor with around 90 hp. Must have fuel injection and I recently picked up a Mexican EFI setup cheap.

My thoughts are........

Magnesium AS41 crankcase - Whats the thoughts on buying new or getting an older one line bored?

74mm Crankshaft with 5.325 rods

Either 88mm or 90.5mm - Can't decide on that but the AA 88's save on Crankase machining.

2280 Cheater Cam

Stock heads with some minor port work - Am I right in beliveing the FI setup works better with smaller valves.

CR ratio about 8.0.

That should about get me started.

Cheers JP

[richparker]

This is pretty much the exact engine I’m planning on building later this year. This will also be my first engine build. I was going to use 87 slip ins, but I’ll check out those 88s. I plan on using the 2280 cam, a used AS41, stock heads. 8:1 with a PICT37. Should be a good little motor, I’m gonna put this is a ‘63 Deluxe Beetle.

I think your 90 hp estimate is very high. I bet we’re looking more like 60 at the wheels if we’re lucky..
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[Brian_e]

Don't be afraid to bore the case for the bigger cylinders. Its more about squaring up the case, refreshing the seal surfaces, correcting the crank center line, and correcting the deck height than just getting more displacement. But increasing the bore diameter is the quickest cheapest way to increase displacement. The case will most likely need to be sent out for line bore and case savers anyways. Just get it all done at once.

For what you are wanting, I would just build a nice little 1776 or 1835cc. Use a stock crank, stock rods, and a set of cleaned up aa500 35x32 heads. Stock heads can work, but they usually need a bunch of work, and the chambers can end up to small if you don't run enough compression.

Brian
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[six7vdub]

I second the advice to build a 1776; that was by far the best combo that I have experienced. I've had a 1600 dual port, a 1776, then a 2110, now a 2276. I like the 2276, but again, before that, the 1776 gave me plenty of torque to keep up with modern traffic, and fuel mileage was great, basically the same as my 1600dp.

I don't have experience with FI, but if you keep it simple with a single carb you won't regret it, based on the proposed build. I had a single Weber 34 on the 1600dp and eventually went with dual Weber 34's and noticed barely any difference, but had the added headache of tuning 2 carbs, not just one. For the performance benefit I would stick with a single carb if I had to do it again. My 34's eventually made their way onto the 1776, but I moved up in size by the time I had my 2110.

Bottom line, my opinion, for a mild build such as you are proposing, keep it simple.

[Brian_e]

I would suggest the opposite.

Hard to beat the simplicity and added power of a pair of properly rebuild Kadrons. I would run them ANY day over an almost too small EFI setup, and for certain over ANY center mount carb.

1776, good small valve heads, w100/cb2232, 8.9:1, light flywheel, 1 3/8" header, and kadrons is a really great little engine.

Brian
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[MuzzcoVW]

I'm currently almost finished with a 1776 with factory F.I. For mine with the 2280 I'll be running premium fuel because I have the compression set at 8.5:1. I usually always agree with Brian, but respectfully disagree on getting rid of F.I. I have driven a 1915cc with the LJet and it has amazing torque. Sure it won't like to rev to 6K but that just sucks anyway. Everyone always focuses on H.P. but that's not what counts most in street driving EDIT: Make sure to pay attention to details like cam thrust and bearing fitment, making sure the cam spins free with the crank while the case is still split. Deck height also

[TXHCBeetle]

[Alstrup]

Hello.
Your listed combo(s) will not get you to 90 hp. Not even sure it will make 80. It can be a nice driver, but not that nice
Now, I do not recall the I.D. of the Mex intake runners, but I do remember that they are not that large. 30 mm (?)

Cam. In such case you would most likely be better off using a Nowak 40.
Heads. Dependant on model they will require a bit more than a fluff & buff, because you need all the suction you can get.
CR. WAY too low. With the Nowak 40 you will need 9-1 in order to be in the sweet zone. Even the 2280 needs 8,5 with F.I.

While the 74 x 88 is a nice "no machine" combo, I am still not super fond of the slip in cylinders with thick wall head side. I´ve seen too many of such cylinders crack already at assembly. They are simply too thin. My advice would be prepare and balance the stock crank & rotating assembly and machine the case for 90,5 cylinders. Then you also get the option of decking the case say 1 - 1,4 mm so you get a nice and clean seating surface for the cylinders and can adjust your deck right. - Some will then say "why not go 1835 or 1914?" Two reasons. 1. Especially a 1914 is signicantly more difficult to get right, no matter what people tell you. And 2. When using the Mex injection you do not want too much displacement along with the limited intake. In fact, I would be close to advokate a "perfect" 1600.
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[MuzzcoVW]

[Alstrup]

[lner JP]

Thanks for the help guys, Jurgen Nowark is new to me, done a google search not much coming up, is there a website?

Advice on hear points towards a 1776 rather than a 1905, would a 1905 really be that much harder? If I need to buy a counter weighted Crank anyway? they are nearly the samre price.

Cheers
JP

[Alstrup]

No, a 1904 in that set up is relatively easy built. But it is too large for the Mex F.I. Well, it´ll run of course, but it will be rather short breathed. There is a significant difference in usable rpm band between a 1776 and a 1904 when they need to get air through a straw.
Think of it this way. You can build a lazy 1904 or a versatile 1776. I would take the 1776 any day of the week, unless I was living somewhere where I had to lug around just off idle half the day.
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[MuzzcoVW]

[celtune]

[txoval]

I have his cam specs in both metric and standard units if you would like to see.

He will also grind them to whatever specs you want. You need to run Pieper lifters with his cams, per his recommendation.

[Shane Tuttle]

I don't have much to add that's already discussed by other much more experienced builders on this thread.

I will reiterate your stance on staying with the EFI is limiting the real potential of what you can get out of your engine. Is there any chance you can reconsider going to a carb setup?

[calvinater]

hows about a micro squirt or something similar?
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[MuzzcoVW]

[nsracing]

To the OP. If you have never done a single motor in the past let alone do a topend-only rebuild, then I suggest you start w/ a basic overhaul. Pick your motor one - 1500cc or 1600cc. Overhaul one of these successfully and then maybe you can do a stroker.

I would hate for you to start on a stroker and come back here cry like bi0-atch coz got you frustrated the cam gear fell off on the new cam.

A simple overhaul will get you the experience so you know your way around a motor. Take it apart, clean parts and then re-assemble it back without screwing it up.

I am not really sure why newbies insist on learning this stuff during an actual build. Learn how to stitch a finger before you crack the chest open.

An overhaul is a good learning tool. You do not need to buy parts for overhaul - just cleaning things and putting it back together. if you are up to it, by all means install new rings and refresh the valve/seat job. And you can use this motor ...while you are building the proper stroker motor.

hope this helps -

[MuzzcoVW]