Brake Caliper Bracket Question

[Highpockets]

This bracket is to thick. it will not let the bearing cap tighten down properly. it is a beeline trailing arm and a appletree bracket. both of them say they never heard of this. someone did say they had this problem and milled the bracket down. I do not know the thickness of a backing plate in order to do that. somebody else said I need a different year cap. I would rather not have to mill it and if there is not supposed to be a problem, why do I have one ? I am new to this game. any help would be appreciated. thanks

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Why not get longer studs?

Either that or weld it on the arm, away from the spindle. It appears to be right where you could tack it on the back side and then cut away the rest of the bracket and finish welding it to the side of the arm.

I know, I know, but this is supposed to be bolt-on. lol whatever.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[BFB]

Yeh, weld it. Bad thing about those bolt on type caliper brackets is they space out your bearing cap so your bearing isn’t actually captured in there like it was / is supposed to be. Ive had a few buggys that this caused some play in the rear wheels to where i could move an 31” tire about 1/4 - 3/8” in & out at the top and i machined the caps down in order to make it all right again.

If i were you id bolt it all up and make sure thats a good position for the caliper bracket, then since your caliper bracket is so close to your arm weld it where it sits then cut the bolt on section off and and put the bearing cap back together as it should be. Then consider yourself lucky that you got to use the cap bracket as a placement guide for where to weld the caliper bracket because its no quite that easy to mock up everything for normal weld on brackets
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Well more than likely he'll find that spot won't work. It depends on the way the caliper attaches to the bracket, but it would probably be off by the thickness of the bracket. Because once you take the bracket out the caliper is that much closer.
I put calipers on the back of mine and it took a lot of re-assemblies before i got it right. Unfortunately, my setup was completely custom and i didn't pick a good caliper. You learn a lot about brakes AND fabricating with a project like this. I would never pay $1k for the bolt on kits because i like the process of doing your own thing. Everybody's different.

Isn't there a bearing cap that is thinner? For some reason that just popped into my head. Like i remember that being factor when i was doing mine. Maybe I'm trippin.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Dale M.]

THere is actually three different bearing cap thicknesses, I believe it depends on year of cap....

_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Thanks Dale, maybe this answers the ops question
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[BFB]

Where the bearing cap is has nothing to do with where the rotor will sit, by that i mean if OP mocks everything up a then removes the unwanted / unneeded bracket from behind the bearing cap that wont change where the rotor seats on the stub axle. The rotor bottoms out on the spacer & bearings irregardless of cap or even housing.
Also, and i could be wrong, but those caps may be different thickness but the bearing recess all look to be the same depth. The caps are designed to capture the outer bearing so unless there are thinner & thicker bearings they should all be the same in that regard.
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[Dale M.]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Needless to say, whenever anyone is doing something like this, it is necessary to mock it up as many times as you can to make sure everything clears and fits together. If it's possible you can get a thinner cap and make it work when you can't have it milled then maybe that's something to look into.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Highpockets]

Don't know how to delete double post[/list]

[Highpockets]

Seems maybe I didn't explain so well for some. Sorry. Everything fits fine. Bolts are correct length etc. Problem is that when it is all tightened down, the caliper bracket keeps the cap from tightening up properly on the bearing. So it let's the stub shaft and bearing move slightly. And since I did not build the buggy and am not familiar with vw, I have no idea what it is that I have to start with. If I take the bracket off, yes it does tighten down and stop like it should. Without a backing plate or bracket. But if I get the bracket to thin, it won't have any clamping force to keep it from moving. It will just move whatever the slack in the bolt holes allow when braking forward and reverse. What should I look for to know what year cap I have and know which year to go to...thanks

[BFB]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

I apologize, the deletion of the backing plate slipped my mind. Does the bearing fit through a hole in that caliper bracket? Maybe what you need is some shim washers to put behind the bearing?
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Dale M.]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/bearing-shims
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Dan_Lockwood]

"IF" the caliper bracket is much thicker and you extend the bearing outward with shims etc, the outer bearing sleeve will not be inset quite a bit and the spacer shaft outer spacer may be too far into the seal and let the inside of the drum/disc rub.

I got lucky with my caliper brackets. They were just a bit thinner than the original backing plate, or for that matter maybe the same thickness. After I used one paper gasket on top of the caliper bracket, the outer bearing retainer clamped down to lock the caliper bracket very tightly, perfect one might say!

The step in the bearing carrier where the backing plate slides over, is what your caliper bracket needs to be in thickness. As some have said, surface grind the inner surface of the outer bearing retainer or surface grind the caliper bracket to that thickness.

Good luck, Dan

[BFB]

You can’t space the bearing out without adding another spacer between the center bearing race and the sleeve otherwise you’re going to separate the bearing. You could put spacers between the cap and bearing though. Dale, for someone who knows so much as to be so eager to just tell someone else they are WRONG you should’ve known this already and stated that it wouldnt work.
I’ve attached a couple diagrams…
And Dan you didnt just get lucky, you just had a better kit. There is supposed to be a plate between the cap and the housing, it was the drum brake backing plate. So your bracket just happened to be closer to the factory backing plate thickness. Which they all should do but they dont.
Ive also seen multiple buggys where they had weld on caliper brackets and just bolted the bearing caps down without anything behind them which resulted in the cap bottoming out on the bearing and then the bolts folding the cap corners over, not sure how someone misses that.
I’m not sure why people make this so complicated, it’s not rocket science and it’s not a hard fix. If you get lucky like Dan, great. If you’re unlucky like OP then just shave some off the cap. Hell, ive hand sanded some down, you dont need a milling machine or any special equipment. The over thick bracket isn’t going to be that much over, 1/16” maybe? So it doesnt take a lot of effort or time to take some material of the caps especially on a belt sander or something similar.

_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[Highpockets]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I will be grinding or welding. I would just really like to know why it doesn't work as it should..

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Boy, if i had spent all that money on a brake kit and I still had to monkey around with it to make it fit, i would be pretty upset. Not to say that isn't par for the course with vws.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[jimmyhoffa]