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kaieric Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2022 Posts: 89 Location: saarbruecken/germany
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:01 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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thx! _________________ 7/1958 RSA Beetle Cabriolet RHD |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Finally got some cars juggled so the vert can be in a corner for a few months without clogging up the whole barn while I have the engine and transmission pulled. The engine leaks of course, but it's bad enough that it's a nuisance, and the trans pops out of third occasionally, and it whines when it gets hot, and it leaks....
And there is a long list of things that could stand to be improved, so out it all comes
My shop helper keeps dropping the ball in my lap.
you can see how wet this is, just weeping from every seam
Engine out in 20 minutes, would've been less if I had all the tools pulled out before hand. These 36hp are a joy to work on
Some holes drilled where the cross shaft goes through the trans case, perhaps it seized at some point? strange
broken bits of something sitting under the tempermental starter gear.
Evidence of the rear end accident from many years ago. Whatever happened, the engine bay shape and size were barely changed, as then engine came out easily
Several incorrect bits on this engine, distributor, generator, crank pulley
The exhaust has a few pinholes, but is mostly solid. May get patched as I like the embossed VW end caps
Breaking it down, didn't break or strip a single thing
The typical goofball repairs these things get over a lifetime
Heads are getting a rebuild, so not a problem
Some correct thin slot generators broken down for inspection
Cleaned up
Once the flywheel is off I can get it mounted up on the stand, and open it up for inspection. Best case scenario is it gets rings and heads, but if things are marginal I'll just do everything.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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kaieric Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2022 Posts: 89 Location: saarbruecken/germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:06 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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how did you clean up the end plates? so clean! _________________ 7/1958 RSA Beetle Cabriolet RHD |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:49 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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kaieric wrote: |
how did you clean up the end plates? so clean! |
Lately I've been using crushed glass in my blasting cabinet. Seems to be the best bang for the buck. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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In for a penny, in for a pound....
Had the thing on the bench and stripped before I even thought to snap a pic, but no doubt you are all familiar with a dripping greasy long block..
Heads off, few studs came loose
Not great, but not terrible.
Ruh-Roh!
Piston #3 has left the chat
Opened up, no real surprises.
Mains are decent, or better than expected. But someone used the later style center main, I feel the grooved center gives the rod bearings better oil
Rod bearings are trashed, especially the two that feed off the center main
Here's the deal with this
If I pay to ship it to DPR to be ground, it gets stroked too. Maybe someone local has a ground stock crank.
Need to find a teenager to start washing things at the parts washer.
I'm going to try to get the case hot washed tomorrow, fingers crossed.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 10010 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Looks like it was overheated pretty good.
Or starved of oil.
Or, BOTH!
If it helps you out, you can send the crank to me, I can drive it over to Jose! Only 7.2 miles away! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:01 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Looks like it was overheated pretty good.
Or starved of oil.
Or, BOTH!
If it helps you out, you can send the crank to me, I can drive it over to Jose! Only 7.2 miles away! |
I'm going to chalk this up to the design of the early 36 in a vert; limited airflow into the engine compartment, with the widely spaced blade fan, and a cooler blocking #3. When it goes back together I'm changing to the better 40hp fan for starters.. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:06 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Merry Christmas to everyone, from my family to yours!
Peace.
My wife has fully embraced Jimmy and made him the centerpiece of this years card.. after much patience, many takes, and hours of editing
Behind the scenes
_________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 10010 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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That is SO COOL! Good to see it is part of the family!
Merry Christmas! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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cleaning engine cases is terrible filthy business, so better to get it over with and clean all the cases I have to build at once. So here is the case for Jimmy Sprinkles, with a 52 case for my zwitter, and a 57 case I have to build for a client
I run hot water through the pressure washer, it gets most of the grease, but not the baked on varnish or oxidation.
Then into the cabinet for a walnut shell blast. This cuts the baked on oil and varnish, and all but the worst oxidation
Then they get scrubbed in the parts washer, to clean out the bits of walnut shell and pockets of missed oily goop.
Next I rinse with some dish detergent to kill the parts washer solvent, dry, and remove the rest of the studs and other hardware. Pull the case plugs so I can flush and brush the oil galleys
Finally looking good and no longer filthy\
Not done, but clean enough to work on without getting myself filthy.
The crank needs a grind, so off to DPR. It'll get stroked to 69mm
Rest of the engine details are being debated, but probably a mild build, made to look period correct for the car. If it was the original motor, it would stay original, but oh well.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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obus Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001 Posts: 11108 Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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obus wrote: |
I should have bought that went he put it up for sale but i passed like a dummy and bought a bus. Looks like you are doing it better justice than i would have. Looks like its coming along nicely |
Thanks man. I for one am glad you passed on it
Besides, I'm sure you didn't want to rebuild an engine and transmission
Engine progress..
Crank, rods and flywheel, are all boxed up to send to Jose at DPR. I found someone local who may be right to do the heads, but I need to visit his shop to see first. In the meantime I'm just cleaning engine parts between other projects.
Transmission..
Man the joy of working on a clean driver, nothing was stuck or broke! 1 hour and I had the trans out
On the stand
tubes off
open sesame
driver side tube retainer had 4 gaskets, passenger side had 2
Good to remember this stuff for reassembly. Though the passenger side was worn shiny and might have been tight.
Nose cone off. See the dark corrosion (rust?) on the left bearing? Thats the forward bearing on the pinion shaft, thats NLA. It's a double row bearing that controls fore-aft thrust, with a snap ring groove. I have one nice use one in my stash, and just bought two NOS ones that should be here soon.
First gear on the input shaft. These are the teeth that grind when you aren't stopped and try to stab it into 1st. All things considered, these are ok and I can probably dress the ends to get some more life out of it.
1/2 slider, the worn edges are the other face that grinds when selecting 1st. I have a few of these, will pick the best to rebuild with.
3/4 slider, 4th gear is on the left with it's hub and brass synchronizer. 3rd is on the right with the hub and synchronizer. 3rd gear grinds a touch, and it jumps out occasionally which is either a worn slider, or worn (or misadjusted) shift fork. Lots to inspect, and probably take the parts to someone smarter than myself for their opinion.
That pinion bearing. Surprisingly the balls and races look ok, but all the bearings are getting replaced regardless.
Ring and pinion are nice.
Overall, everything is much nicer than average. I've pulled apart a bunch of split case transmissions looking for parts, and they've all been terrible. Most look like this
Bunch of new bearings that I crossed by size. Diff bearings, axle bearings, and both trans input shaft bearings, SKF and FAG
Thats enough for now, more parts to clean....
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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obus Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001 Posts: 11108 Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Two steps forward, one step back.
Finished stripping everything out of the case late last night and found a problem.
Both dowels that locate the rear pinion bearing, and rear inout shaft bearing were flush with the case. Say what?
The case was too slippery to really do anything more, so gave it a bath and looked further.
You can see the pin on the left has been driven down into the bearing saddle and is actually sticking out the bottom
And a crack
`Welded a nut to each dowel and twisted them free.
D'oh!
So the case is cracked in two spots, so trash. I have another case that's also a 1956 serial number, just a few months later, so I'll get started cleaning that..
damned. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 10010 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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That sucks! I feel for you! Sorry man. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:08 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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BACK IN THE SADDLE
Went up into the loft, found the 56 case, gave to a thorough blast with crushed walnut shells, then a long soak and hot scrub with lots of degreaser and little brass brushes. Then before anything, cleaned the shop. Cleaned and put away tools, toys, other projects, two disassembled 36hp engines got sorted and sent for cleaning, rebuilding, painting....
Bought clean rags, brake clean, new gloves, brought down all the slit case trans parts and got set up
First, get the differential bearing installed, so I can measure for the needed differential side shims. If I was using the diff in it's original case I wouldn't need to do this, but setting g up a ring and pinion into a new case, this is what you do.. The factory method uses a special mandrel, and another fixture to measure the differential.
Which is a lot of tools that I don't have, but them there's a procedure "emergency method of adjusting ring gear" which was written for the plebeians.
So I got my measurements written down and started on reassembling the shift rails and forks.
There are a bunch of check balls and pill shaped bits, that click the forks into position, and prevent you from selecting more than one gear at a time. Then the rails and forks go in. I laid out my collection of 1/2 shift forks, and measured them to find the least worn.
The most worn (3.73mm) was the one that is original to this car, I had another that was a full .11mm thicker so I used it
Then the 3/4 shift fork. The one I'm holding is the original, you can see the groove where it's worn thin. In the back are the two NOS forks I sourced from Nico (Thank you!!)
Then picked out the nicest reverse gear, which isn't really nice, but much better than the others I had to choose from. Here it is installed, and locked in place with the pin. This is the pin that locates the input shaft bearing, the same pin that the last person missed getting aligned and cracked the case.
Getting this far let me get a bunch of parts off the bench, next I will r&r the input shaft, and then move on to the pinion shaft.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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markendee Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Kyabram, Australia
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:27 am Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Great work Seth.
Really enjoying your work.
Those damaged dowels have all the hallmarks of someone not calming down and doing it right.
The longest way is often the quickest.
Regards,
Mark. _________________ Member # 145244 |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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MOAR:
If you take the case measuring instructions you will end up with a sheet like this:
And, if you can measure accurately, you come up with the dimensions for S1 and S2 which are the differential shims. These are smaller than tunnel style shims, and hard to find. The tunnel style shims all have a 9 digit part number, these only have a 6 digit number.
I called around and couldn't find any, so I started emptying my stash and found a half dozen, and actually had the two that I needed.
Then onto more luck, while emptying boxes and bins, I found a NOS FAG pinion bearing, which is great as my others have been delayed in the mail.
And I started on the pinion stack, as it takes more time, and it is a rainy Saturday..
this is the pinion with the cleaned and reinstalled 1-2 hub and slider installed. No pics of the installation, as it is spring loaded and I only have two hands.
2nd gear synchronizer stop ring, the 3 recesses fit the slider spring keys
Second gear and hub installed, with the brass bushing that 2nd and 3rd spin on. There is an oil hole in this bushing that I line up with an oil hole in the pinion. The manual doesn't say anything about that but it feels right
3rd gear/ hub and it's synchronizer stop ring. The 3/4 synchronizer ring is NLA, and I was lucky enough to buy a few NOS last year
3-4 hub and slider assembly
When it's installed it needs to sit flush or just above the splines. The shim to adjust this is where I started under the 1-2 slider and hub
4th gear bushing, this is badly galled on almost every transmission I've disassembled
4th sychronizer stop ring
4th gear and hub installed, topped with the fat washer (oil grooves towards the gear). These other shims adjust the final size. I did wash them before installing
Pressing on that sweet nos bearing
And then checking the fit into the case
Yes!! _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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tcoop1100 Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2004 Posts: 197 Location: Hilo, Moku O Keawe, Moana Pakipika
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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Great stuff, Seth. Thanks for posting for us. _________________ Aloha,
Tim
January '57 Sedan, April '64 40hp big bore |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5985 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: 56 vert Jimmy Sprinkles |
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markendee wrote: |
Great work Seth.
Really enjoying your work.
Those damaged dowels have all the hallmarks of someone not calming down and doing it right.
The longest way is often the quickest.
Regards,
Mark. |
Right!
I've accidentally pinched an engine bearing, but those are easy to miss as they only stick up 4-5mm. This one pin was pushed into the case a solid 10mm and it's an 8mm pin. I can only imagine it was a lot of work to tighten the case enough to push that into an aluminum case
Every time I've just kept tightening a bolt when something wasn't right has ended in disaster. EVERY SINGLE TIME
But somehow whoever did this dodged a bullet, as both bearings were ok, and the transmission actually was ok, besides jumping out of third and leaking from every seam..
tcoop1100 wrote: |
Great stuff, Seth. Thanks for posting for us. |
You're welcome. If my pictures help someone else in the future then I'm happy to do it. All the guys that used to know this stuff are gone, and we cannot each be expected to figure it all out on our own! _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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