Model years '56-'60

[Lind]

I have been reading through old topics in here, and lots of people say that there were no model years for Karmann Ghias until sometime in the '60s.

This information was fairly hard to find, but Volkswagenwerk GMBH did explicitly state the model years for the cars which it produced. Karmann Ghias are a little different from beetles. Still, feel free to call your car whatever you like.....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/dealers/60salesmanbook.php

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Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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[John Moxon]

You can't just light the fuse and retire gracefully Lind.
I know you've had early KG so what do you think?

For all his faults Richard Troy is a pedant concerning Karmann Ghia facts and he will always tell you there were no KG Model Years until 1964 and I can see what he means; changes to the early cars drip fed with changes throughout the years.
On the other hand Mike Gregory at "House of Ghia" insists they all have Model Years.
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Braukuche]

Interesting.
I finally sent my VIN in for my birth certificate and listed my car as a 1956 off the assumption that if it was made in ‘56 it’s a ‘56, but the Certificate came back with “1957” on it in big, black letters.
So, on what basis did Richard claim that VW didn’t do model year? From an advertising and marketing perspective it makes no sense. Almost all auto manufacturers made and make a big deal about introducing the “new” model. Did VW wait until January to introduce their new models? Do advertising and marketing materials for the new model year date from January? I just wonder where Richard got his info?
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Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now

[Lind]

[Trylon]

Another data point to consider when weighing the merits of the pedant’s information is that his written sales pitch for our car stated that it was built so late in ‘59 that it would not be unexpected to see ‘60 features on it.

Our car’s build date is Dec. 6, 1958.
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel!

[John Moxon]

[Braukuche]

[Loren]

RT is more interested in build date rather than model year because VW didn't save all the changes for the next model year to be implemented at one time, instead they made changes throughout production. For example my original May 59 built lowlight Ghia has hybrid 59/60 doors with a mash up of parts from both years as VW started to insert 60 parts into production. It also has 60 visors. When building a lowlight you really need to know the build date to get the details right and disregard model year. My December 58 Ghia cabriolet was sold in 58 and registered as a 58, even though it's a 59 "model" year, which further muddies the waters.

[obus]

Ghia rookie here and mine is a May 20 1960 build. I think its a Mutt VW but you all would know more than me.
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July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273

[Lind]

Model years are a marketing thing. They definitely existed on all VWs starting in 1955 for the '56 model year. All Karmann Ghias were made in the model year era.

The generally accepted style of restorations today is to make the cars very close to the way that they were when they were delivered to their first owner, except for the things that people are customizing. VW considered them to be functional cars that might need updated with later parts if original parts were not available or the later parts were of a better design.

Call your car whatever you like. Call someone else's car what you like at your own peril....
_________________
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Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.

[John Moxon]

[Braukuche]

So at the shop yesterday we were discussing this. Our takeaway is that the model year designation had more to do with marketing than any real association with model since the 55-early 57 cars had very little apparent changes. They all had the same color schemes and of course the bodies didn’t change except for some minor things that were evolving changes over the production run. It wasn’t until what, February or so of ‘57 that the real changes hit, meaning the fresh air paddles debuted and they introduced the gas gauge? And of course the real big model year changes hit in August 58 with the different color schemes, the new steering wheel, interior light, seats, door panels, etc.
We figured that in fall of 1956 if you went into the VW dealer and they happened to have a Ghia on the floor they weren’t likely to have a sign on it saying 1956 when all the other models were labeled 1957. Even though there was no discernible difference between a July 1956 production car and a October 1956 car they weren’t going to sell it as last years model at a discount.
I guess that’s why with the early cars the idea of year of production dictates model year makes sense. Otherwise someone with a January 1957 car, which is the same as a August 56 car, could call theirs a “1956.”
Or maybe this is all a long winded apology for me wanting to call my Oct 56 production car a “1956.”
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now

[John Moxon]

[Lind]

[udo dreisoerner]

Hello from Germany. I've been to the Karmann factory in Osnabrück a total of 14 times, have had many discussions and have been researching the Karmann Ghia 1955-1959 Lowlight since 2007. It simply doesn't matter what Richard Troy or anyone else thinks. Troy cannot know either because Volkswagen itself does not know. Ask 5 people from Volkswagen and you will get 4 different answers. Changes were made during production that were not always noted and then did not appear in the catalogues. Nobody, really nobody, can prove how it really was. Nobody has the corresponding papers and even if there were a paper for the model year or production year, probably nobody has the follow-up paper where the next change would be noted. I am particularly concerned with special colors for the lowlight, i.e. body colors that were not in the official brochures, but were realised. It is no longer comprehensible what exactly happened when in 1956 a buyer wanted the Karmann in gold metallic, for example. He got the car in gold metallic. But there is no evidence of the exact procedure from ordering to delivery when the color request was noted. Most likely a catalog color was ordered and then, whatever, gold metallic eventually became. And these cars with special colors existed, demonstrably. Richard Troy is not the Karmann Ghia god, nobody is and nobody will be. Certainly one can deduce some facts and make an assumption, but nothing more.
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Searching for a 1956 lowlight karmann ghia with a VIN number between1273054 and 1273440, and the matching engine with an Engine Number between
1525510 and 1525519 PLEASE OFFER ME ONLY THE CARS THAT I'M LOOKING FOR, THANKS!!

[John Moxon]

[udo dreisoerner]

[John Moxon]

[Braukuche]

[retrowagen]

Hello everyone, I hope you are all well.

Fun thread. I appreciate Lind posting that internal dealership document. As I reported in years past, there was continuous refinement and development of the model as Karmann tried desperately to meet demand of what turned out to be its biggest seller to date. Bear in mind that they were a traditional coachbuilding company, using the same handwork-intensive techniques as other contemporary coachbuilding firms (i.e. Reutter, Wendler, Hebmueller, Beutler, etc.), and trying to evolve their construction of the KG from something less labor-intensive into something easier to produce. There were approximately one month or longer delays in lead times on hard parts from suppliers, for things like instruments, powerplants, and brake parts, so a scholarly analysis of the dates of implementation of production detail changes will often reflect this reality (i.e. a brake cylinder change implemented on the Beetle line would eventually arrive on the Karmann Type 14 line several weeks later). And it also bears mentioning that in this work environment, Wilhelm Karmann had an open-door policy in his shop that if a production line worker had an idea that would save time and/or cost in assembling their cars, if the idea could be implemented and was, the worker would be given a small cash bonus! I believe this can be seen reflected in the evolution of small details on the Type 14’s, such as the finishing of the rain gutters, the September 16, 1957-up steering wheel trim cover, nose badge pressing and emblem, and the taillight assembly design, for example. Some changes must have been driven by VW corporate to make the little cars seem slightly more upmarket (the addition of the gas gauge and special steering wheel from September 16, 1957, to “lift” the model above its Beetle origins just a bit further). Karmann also was in the process of constructing a new factory facility (on Martinistrasse in Osnabrueck) to meet the demand for the new car (in addition to the Beetle Cabriolet, DKW, and Ford Cabriolet models they were producing at the same time). There was a lot going on there!

Those of us who know these earlier (pre-1960) cars more intimately quickly realize that thinking in terms of “Model Year” is very foolish – it really does you no favors when ordering replacement parts. My former September 22, 1957-produced Brilliant Red Coupe, which was produced in the first few days of the “1958” interior and color scheme and was a very low mileage car and original in all respects, itself had a number of handmade solutions for various things, such as hand-made rolled beading around the rear window defroster vent (later cars had a molded plastic part for this), and clear red gelatine plastic cover between the license light assembly and the engine bay cover, to tidy things up a bit. This car had an earlier style of brake wheel cylinders that the Beetle production line had superseded the month prior, and Karmann documented its implementation of the new part number on its Type 14 production line the same day my car came off the line! Thus the Coupes and Cabriolets that were a few steps behind mine received the updated parts.

For whatever it’s worth, this car was purchased in the Frankfurt area the day after the 1957 IAA car show ended, by an American tourist, and it was paperwork identified it as a 1957 Volkswagen.

The concept of “Model Year” was very much an American construct that revolved around marketing, “keeping up with the Joneses” consumer culture (that was running wild in the prosperous post-war 1950’s of the United States and recovering western Europe) and planned obsolescence. American car manufacturers were restyling their best-selling models ANNUALLY. Volkswagen’s Doyle Dane Bernbach ads famously made light of this to sell Beetles to level-headed folks.

Best wishes to all of my Karmann Ghia friends,

Dave