211953227B 9-pin hazard flasher/turn signal relay with grnd wire

[BulliBill]

Okay, like many before me, I've been diagnosing and repairing the 12 volt, 9-pin relay which controls my 4-way emergency flasher/turn signals/brake lights to full function. This is for a Jan of 1967 production Bus. Until recently I had a formerly NOS (installed two years ago) in-the-box Hella 9-pin relay with VW p/n 211 953 227A that did not come with the brown ground wire as the later 211 953 227B relays had. The original factory-installed wiring looked in good condition, un-hacked. Everything was working fine for a while, then the 9-pin relay clicked louder than usual then the turn signals and 4-way hazard flashers stopped lighting up, while the relay continued to click when turned on.

The 211 953 227 and 211 953 227A look like this:

The 221 953 227B have this factory added brown ground wire:

I used Matt Roberds excellent topic on Type 2.com about diagnosis and repairs to step-by-step test each wire and appropriate light and terminal for function. While doing so I checked each wire end at the relay for loose/faulty crimp female spade connectors and cleaned up each female crimp connector with a wire wheel on a Dremel drill. Then each of the removed terminals were jumpered to #30 power and each tested fine, lighting up the appropriate exterior light or dash indicator light as Matt described. Hmmmm...

So I had a few stashed away 12 volt 9-pin relays. A few were 211 953 227 relays (no brown ground wire), a few 211 953 227B relays which featured the factory installed additional brown ground wire, and the 211 952 227A relay mounted in the Bus with possible issues. So not being an electrical/electronics wizard as some of you are, I figured that I might as well swap out the "227A" relay and try out a "227B" relay with the ground wire to see if that might fix everything.

The "227B" relays have this factory upgraded brown ground wire that is approximately 2' long with both a female crimp spade connector as well as a crimp-on "eyelet" terminal for a sheet metal screw. Question #1: Is this "227B" relay an improvement for the Bay-windshield 1968-onward Buses? Can anyone describe what the "grounding" female spade connector connects to? Being almost 2' long I suspect that the long ground wire goes up into the dash area to some grounding male spade connector? So far I don't see any unused male spade connectors anywhere under my dash and kick panel that is attached to a body "ground". Perhaps this improved relay with brown ground wire is aimed at the '68 onward Bus market? Maybe so, but in my 1967 VW dealership parts book for the Split Bus era, the "227B" relay is listed there as a relay for late 12 volt Split-Buses. Do you know where, and on what models this brown ground wire should plug onto, if at all on a 1967 Bus?

The roughly 2" long brown wire with a female spade connector and a eyelet connector for grounding purposes:

Anyway, I disconnected the battery negative cable from the body. I took a nice, lightly used "227B" relay from my stash with the brown ground wire, and I then used my Dremel tool with tiny wire wheel to polish up all nine male spade connectors on this "227B" relay with the brown ground wire. Then one by one I unplugged each correct colored wire from the installed "227A" relay and plugged it onto the correct male spade connector on the yet to be installed "227B" 9-pin relay. Once all were swapped to the "B" relay, I removed the "227A" relay from the Bus and set it aside for later testing. As for what I did with the brown ground wire, I found an existing sheet metal screw (one of the two screws which attached the "L"-shaped grey painted mount bracket to the body that the 9-pin relay then attaches to. I scratched off any paint there and attached the eyelet with a coat of dielectric grease to the bare metal of the body connection. I then mounted the read- for-testing "B" relay to the "L" shaped bracket with the single long screw through the center of the relay.

I re-attached the battery ground, took a deep breath and then tested the 4-way emergency flasher switch (YES!), the turn signal switch and all it's exterior and speedo indicator lights (YES!) and both brake lights (YES!) for function. Time for a celebratory beer!

Both slightly different relays (neither of these are available for sale as I might need them in the future):

Anyway, if any of you can shed some light on what year the "211 953 227B" relay with the brown ground wire was intended for, and exactly where the female spade crimp-on connector was plugged onto for ground, and where the eyelet connector was screwed to that might be helpful to us all! Thanks for any clarification! And thanks again to Matt Roberds for his great 9-pin relay how-to article which was very helpful!

Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

[KTPhil]

I don't have specific answers to your questions.

But I'll say that the added ground wire took care of a problem with early relays (same as the '66 and '67 Bug relays) in that it depended on the mounting screw to ground itself. When that got loose, the relay would malfunction. I'm not sure it damages anything; it just doesn't work. Using a toothed washer helps, as does adding a ground wire.

So I'm not surprised you solved your flasher problems that way.
_________________
Current Fleet:
'71 Fastback
'69 Westfalia
Retired:
'67 Beetle
'65 Beetle (x2)
'65 Bus
'71 Squareback

[70bus]

"Is this "227B" relay an improvement for the Bay-windshield 1968-onward Buses?"
You can look in the Wiring section of the Technical archives to see if they are wired same/different. My 70 uses the 4-pin box, so I'm no help there.

If you dare to open them up, sometimes cleaning the other relays in these boxes (the ones that are 'downstream' from the one that still clicks when powered) can help; internal corrosion on the contacts preventing a speedo or hazard function is common from what I see in the various forums.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people."
-Robert Williams

[BulliBill]

Okay, I'm still wondering what and where exactly was that brown ground wire supposed to plug into under the 1967 thru '69 Transporter dash? It would have to be a grounded position.

Here is another question: It seems like a decade or almost two ago, I remember seeing an article in Hot VWs magazine featuring someone who wanted to test those 9-pin relays, but more comfortably on a workbench. The article showed a test bench device that the author cobbled up with a 12 volt battery, front and rear turn signals components and switch, and a 4-way E-flashing light switch that he could plug a nine-pin relay in and then test the relay for full function. The article even published a wiring diagram so that the reader could make a test rig for themselves. Does anyone happen to remember seeing that article. I'd love to read it again and maybe cobble up a test rig up to test my (and other Bus friends too) extra 9-pin relays comfortably on a workbench vs repeatedly getting below and under the under dash area of a old Bus. Anyone have an idea of what year/issue that might have been in? I have access to a full collection of HVW mags to borrow and read if I can just figure which issue I need. Thanks for any answers. If we can find it, I'll post the diagram up here...

Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!