Restoring a 65 Ghia in India

[bnam]

I'm replacing every brake line. I took measurements from the existing, but in many cases, they were misleading as they were routed incorrectly. For example, main line to rear runs under the pan and ends in the 3-way junction on the left side above the torsion tune and other lines were connected form there. When cleaning up the frame horn I discovered the original mounting point for that 3-way junction. So installed it back there. Needed to refit the line under the pan so it would reach the junction. Then took fresh measurements. I'll need to shorten on line, so am borrowing a bubble flare tool. This is the line that goes from the rear 3 way junction to the right side. It was currently routed over the gearbox in a long arc. I suspect the correct routing is more direct. Am searching for reference pics. Will route it the correct way.

The front flex hose lines I got are the ones upto 64. I'll stay with that for now -- though they're a bit longer. I've got a new MC on order along with rear axle seal kits -- oil leaks had fouled up the rear brake pads (so those are also on order). By this weekend, I should have the brakes in order I hope.

While swapping the MC for the correct one, I expect to find the 2 inner spacers/sleeves missing. So, I'll have to fabricate those as my local supplier does not carry those. Can I ask for a measurement on the length and OD of that spacer? I also need the length of the 2 bolts that hold the MC.

Thanks!
Byas

[c21darrel]

This may help for routing.

I think you are asking about the spacer sleeve up front. The frame head piece is just sheet metal. VW put a sleeve so that the two pieces would not collapse on each other when tightening down the MC. I cant give you sizes but it should nt be too difficult to figure out. Another pic.

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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[PolarBearVW]

I thought that picture looked familiar as it really is helping me out on another brake line thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673196

The body off paint is also making me a bit jealous...but anyway this is what you want: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113611829

Another thread had them at ~28mm L, 2mm OD, 8mm ID
I have the spacers out on mine - I'll confirm tonight.
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1974 Ghia Coupe

[c21darrel]

I think you two are just using me.

[bnam]

Thanks for the pic -- was looking for the routing of that cross-over tube at the rear. I'll need to shorten the one I have.

I'll try to fabricate the spacers for now. I did decide to switch over to dual circuit brakes for safety. Trying to source a 67 reservoir locally. But, if not will run a 65 reservoir for a couple of months until I get the 67.

Byas

[Rome]

Byas, here is a photo from the gallery showing one of the spacers in place between the two firewall bulkheads-

You can easily make those spacers using some galvanized metal pipe. The inner diameter can be slightly more than 8mm, such as 9mm. The really tricky part would be to position the stupid things while they hang in the air between the bulkheads. It's been about 20 yrs since I replaced a master cylinder with the body on the chassis. I think the way I did it was to have the fastening bolts ready, then place one spacer into the channel and prop up the rear end with the front of the bolt. I'd insert the bolt nearly all the way through the spacer. Then position and hold the other spacer similarly. The master cylinder was still off the car at that point. Next, with the bolts balancing the spacers, I carefully positioned the M/C, keeping it level by propping it up with some gloves, and then ever so carefully turning one of the bolts in to the mounting holes in the M/C. Really delicate work.

I just thought of something, to prevent the stupid spacers from falling down into the bulkhead "chasm" where you'd need a magnet to retrieve them. If you wad up some aluminum foil and shove it down into the bulkhead channel , then you could insert the spacer from above the foil and push it down to compress the foil and make a "platform". Push the spacer down so that it lines up with your bolt hole. And just keep it there after all is fastened. The aluminum foil would not rust due to humidity.

As to the bolt length, my computer is unable to open Wolfsburg West's site, nor the German VW parts catalog for reference. But BugCity shows the bolt for SuperBeetles as 60mm. It also shows that the Supers have a longer spacer, 43mm instead of 27/28mm in the standard Beetle/Ghia. Therefore the correct bolt length for your car would be 45mm, though you can use a longer bolt because you have room for the extra threads forward of the M/C mounting holes. M8 x 1.25 is the thread pitch.

[PolarBearVW]

Oops there’s a typo in there somewhere but t the 8mm id is correct.
A Shish kebab skewer and putty should do the trick holding it to get the bolt in.

Also note the picture is using that nifty Volvo reservoir mounted directly on the dual MC. I will go that route as well to simplify the whole setup.
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1974 Ghia Coupe

[bnam]

Thanks for the tips on getting the spacers in. Will remove the FIat MC today and see if they retained the spacers or not.

When I rebuilt and reinstalled the MC on my 71 (RHD super MCs are $$$), I made sure to leave the bolts in place. Then put a twist of wire around the threaded portion of the bolt that stuck out to make sure it didn't push back in while reinstalling MC. Then after I got the MC on and the nuts on for a thread or 2, I unrolled the wires out.

Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[bnam]

When I took out the fuel tank a couple of days ago, I noticed that the upper torsion tube was missing the setscrew in the middle. I'm not familiar enough with the front torsion suspension to know what the implication is (only familiar with my 71 super). On my list of things to get/fix.

The cleaned up tank revealed cheese holes in a small area. I will take it to get repaired today.

There is a garage in town that used to maintain this car for the PO. The garage owner passed away, but his son runs the place. Son called me today to tell me that he found a box of spares his dad left for the car and I could pick it up today. Included were these

Nice! His shop will fix the tank.

Any guesses as to what this picture shows?

Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[John Moxon]

[DONGKG]

[bnam]

Spot on!!! This is not what I expected when a friend said that there was a sand blasting service nearby. LUCKILY, I had the foresight to take my breather mask and safety glasses. I cannot even begin to imagine what those ladies carrying the sand are going thru day and day out.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[PolarBearVW]

I recall an excerpt from one of the Ambrose D-Day books that following the Normandy invasion there was a team that just sifted sand 24/7 for several months to supply the mechanical divisions inland.
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1974 Ghia Coupe

[bnam]

[PolarBearVW]

Is that a hose clamp on the steering right above the rag joint?
I found this nice clean picture of a similar area.

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1974 Ghia Coupe

[bnam]

The hose clamp holds on a sleeve which is grounded to the body by a stiff wire. This is the jury-rigged solution for the horn. Does work, I must admit.

I've got to figure out how the horn actually was connected. I've also got to re-route the hoarness to the brake switch. Originally, how was it routed. I need to search for pics of how all the harnesses were originally routed. Am trying to decide whether I build a new harness, buy a new one, buy a used one, or modify the existing one closer to stock.


Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[c21darrel]

you should be fine with those shoes for the time being. You will know for sure when you test them.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[bnam]

I need some help deciding on brakes. I was initially going to install the stock single circuit MC - with stock brake cylinders. But, then I read about switching to Dual circuit and am considering it.

According to my math, switching to dual circuit reduces braking force (for the same applied leg force) by 20%. Simple physics -- the ratio of the force applied at the wheel to the force applied at the MC is proportional to the ratio of the piston areas. So to maintain the same force, the front and rear cylinders would need to be changed to 24mm/21mm respectively.

Are those cylinders available or do people just live with the reduced braking as a trade-off for the redundant safety?

(my math: Piston areas: 17.46mm dia = 304,85mm2; 19.05mm dia = 362.9; 22.2mm dia = 492.

Normally I would just stick to stock given how little I expect to drive the cars. But, now I have started co-organizing what is the largest gathering of vintage VWs in India at an annual event in the former Portugese colony of Goa. The first event is this coming weekend. The drive to Goa is about 700km and involves driving up and down some steep mountain roads of the Western Ghats. I'm doing it this year in my 71 vert. Have set a goal of taking the Ghia next year. This drive has me considering the added safety factor.

Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[bnam]

Finally getting my brakes completed. Went with dual master cylinder - even though it requires 20% more leg force for the same braking effort as the single master setup. I figured the safety aspect was a worthwhile trade-off.

I've got the engine out. The clutch and flywheel are the smaller 180mm setup even though the engine is a 1600DP (I've not measured to confirm that it is 1600). Is the 180mm clutch ok with the stock 1600 output? Hoping it is so that I don't have to change that as well.

I'm redoing the torsion bar settings and bushings. While the parts diag shows 2 part numbers for left inner/right outer and right inner/left outer, my parts guy only has one part. Any idea what the difference between the stock parts are and are the replacements universal?

Thanks!
Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[swavananda]