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Help Help Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Running willy-nilly with scissors in So Cal
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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I'm getting ready to correct the height on the rear of my 67 kombi for the second time. After consulting the tables, 6 splines each way should get me there. Where I can use a hand is any tips for getting the spline count right? I'm OK on the outside but I get lost on the inside. What works? |
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Help Help Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Running willy-nilly with scissors in So Cal
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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I'm getting ready to correct the height on the rear of my 67 kombi for the second time. After consulting the tables, 6 splines each way should get me there. Where I can use a hand is any tips for getting the spline count right? I'm OK on the outside but I get lost on the inside. What works? |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20290 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Help Help wrote: |
I'm getting ready to correct the height on the rear of my 67 kombi for the second time. After consulting the tables, 6 splines each way should get me there. Where I can use a hand is any tips for getting the spline count right? I'm OK on the outside but I get lost on the inside. What works? |
Mark a straight vertical line (I use a silver paint pen) on the end of the torsion bar and the spring plate where it meets the edge of the torsion bar before you pull the two apart. Remove the spring plate, and remove the torsion bar slightly so that it comes free from the splines. Using feel, (yes this is done by feel) turn the bar how ever many notches you want by feeling it click in and out of each inner spline. Then install the spring plate by counting the splines between the marks you made before pulling it all apart.
Once you have done all of this, you will probably find that going by the charts and trying to make this a logical math problem will leave you with an uneven bus. For whatever reason, torsion bars seem to never match perfectly side-to-side. That is why I never bother with protractors and charts. I measure the end of the spring plate to the floor right before I pull things apart. Then I set the end of the spring plate at whatever amount of height change I want right before I put it all back together. Sometimes I will end up adjusting one side one more time to get it just right. This is where adjustable spring plates are nice. But I'm cheap/poor so I take the more laborious route. _________________ nothing |
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Help Help Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Running willy-nilly with scissors in So Cal
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Thanks for the tips. I'll try the measuring from the floor, that sounds like it might work just fine. |
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jacopotex Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015 Posts: 76 Location: gorizia italy
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Hi folks!
i'm looking for doing my self the offset spring plates.
So at the moment i cut the orginal bus spring plates, and i screwed on the swing axle tube, the final piece of a beetle springplate.
i measured the distance between the two spring plates, and i see it's 40mm.
is it possible?
if is ok i will solder this week.
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7050 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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jacopotex wrote: |
Hi folks!
i'm looking for doing my self the offset spring plates.
So at the moment i cut the orginal bus spring plates, and i screwed on the swing axle tube, the final piece of a beetle springplate.
i measured the distance between the two spring plates, and i see it's 40mm.
is it possible?
if is ok i will solder this week.
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i recommend welding _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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jacopotex Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015 Posts: 76 Location: gorizia italy
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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mandraks wrote: |
jacopotex wrote: |
Hi folks!
i'm looking for doing my self the offset spring plates.
So at the moment i cut the orginal bus spring plates, and i screwed on the swing axle tube, the final piece of a beetle springplate.
i measured the distance between the two spring plates, and i see it's 40mm.
is it possible?
if is ok i will solder this week.
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i recommend welding |
yes sure a good solder i don't want to loose a wheel |
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jacopotex Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015 Posts: 76 Location: gorizia italy
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:13 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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no one has ever done? |
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NAES Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2003 Posts: 2121 Location: AREA-52 Southern Killafornia
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:12 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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They're just messing with you man. Yes people have joined 2 spring plates together before. In the US we call it welding. Do you call it soldering in Italy? Just for curiosities sake.
NAES _________________ Barndoor Mafia
Box On Wheels
SBS #00 |
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jacopotex Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015 Posts: 76 Location: gorizia italy
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:35 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Sorry i made a mistake with the words.
it's correct welding |
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GLHTurbo Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009 Posts: 1376 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Running rear discs on a '68 bug trans/axles, 5x130 rotors. Need to order new rotors. Do people typical run press in studs, or lug bolts to mount wheels with rear discs? Studs are certainly better, but as far as removing the rear wheel from the bus will lug bolts be preferred? _________________ 1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3931 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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GLHTurbo wrote: |
Running rear discs on a '68 bug trans/axles, 5x130 rotors. Do people typical run press in studs, or lug bolts to mount wheels with rear discs? Will lug bolts be preferred? |
I use studs. Depends on how low you are too. Right now... do you clear the studs or fight the studs when installing/removing a wheel?
I was tired of it being too low... scraping front tire tub... extra steps in taking shocks off & jacking the axle tube down just to get the back wheel off. Raised it up some to be more manageable. If I remember... I think I pondered the thought of bolts vs. studs... and decided studs + raise.
Does anybody make a female threaded lug hole on 5x130 rotor? _________________ aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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GLHTurbo Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009 Posts: 1376 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Nothing is installed in the bus yet actually, just trying to figure out what parts to order.
These are the rotors I will be buying:
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/ind...30-p-13522
"AC Industries Porsche pattern Drums/Rotors come drilled with two sets of holes. One set tapped for 14mm screw-in studs and one set drilled for 14mm press-in studs." _________________ 1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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Dubskii Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010 Posts: 385 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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After reading these forums over and over it seems like the most popular rear tire set up is a 195/55 or 195/60 when lowering a bus. When these tires are paired with a FF transmission with a 3.88 3rd / 0.82 4th how are the RPMs affected? _________________ 69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
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wrenchnride247 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2010 Posts: 251 Location: Cleveland, TN
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Dubskii wrote: |
After reading these forums over and over it seems like the most popular rear tire set up is a 195/55 or 195/60 when lowering a bus. When these tires are paired with a FF transmission with a 3.88 3rd / 0.82 4th how are the RPMs affected? |
I think you mean 3.88 ring and pinion (not 3rd gear)
With a 3.88 R&P with .82 4th and 195/60/15 you will have to do 79 mph to have 3500 rpm in fourth. (not good)
With 195/55/15 you will need to do 77 mph to get 3500 rpm in fourth. (still not good)
Why 3500 rpm? (glad you asked )That's the ideal rpm for fan speed to cool motor. If sticking with a basic T1 motor the engine will overheat and be sluggish. You should consider keeping .89 for 4th gear. Your motor will thank you. You need to give more info on motor size and driving habits to help more. _________________ SPL
'62 SC 69x90.5 SP TI
'70 T1 84x105 DP T4 |
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Dubskii Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010 Posts: 385 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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What defines a FF trans? Is it the 3.88 or 4.12 R&P, the 0.82 or 0.89 4th or a combo of these? I have a 1600DP and want to lower my bus with either 195/55/15 or 185/60/15 rear tires. I would like to cruise on the freeway at no more than 65mph. What is the trans set-up I need? Would it change if I went to a 1776?
What is the equation to calc the RPMs and MPHs? Does the equation work for only 4th gear or all gearing?
My trans gearing is as follows: 1st-3.80, 2nd-2.06, 3rd-1.26, 4th-0.89, R&P-3.88, Small nut RGBs-1.39. _________________ 69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
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wrenchnride247 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2010 Posts: 251 Location: Cleveland, TN
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Dubskii wrote: |
What defines a FF trans? Is it the 3.88 or 4.12 R&P, the 0.82 or 0.89 4th or a combo of these? I have a 1600DP and want to lower my bus with either 195/55/15 or 185/60/15 rear tires. I would like to cruise on the freeway at no more than 65mph. What is the trans set-up I need? Would it change if I went to a 1776?
What is the equation to calc the RPMs and MPHs? Does the equation work for only 4th gear or all gearing?
My trans gearing is as follows: 1st-3.80, 2nd-2.06, 3rd-1.26, 4th-0.89, R&P-3.88, Small nut RGBs-1.39. |
Basically, A FF is late model ('73 T1 and later) gearing which is, 3.88 R&P, 3.78 1st, 2.06 2nd, 1.26 3rd, and .89 4th. But, you can also do a 4.12 R&P with same gears, but use .82 4th to give almost the same final drive as 3.88 with .89 4th, but with shift point RPM difference between 3rd and 4th. A 1600ccDP will push it, but not be very exciting to drive. A 1776cc would be better which is what I run, but SP with dual 34 ICT's. I run 65 mph all day and have 350 deg. head temp's. I use this calculator http://johnmaherracing.com/calculators/gear-ratio-calculator/ It's easier/faster than using the formula. If you are lowering your bus, just build the new trans with the gearing that looks (remember the 3500 rpm) the best for your tire diameter. The RGB's you're running now will be fine until you drop it with straight axle rear. _________________ SPL
'62 SC 69x90.5 SP TI
'70 T1 84x105 DP T4 |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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I was wondering if anyone has changed the rear hatch hinges to allow the rear hatch to open higher. I am 6'3" tall and with my bus lowered the hatch opens right to about top of my forehead. I am also half blind which really doesn't help the situation.
So is it possible to work the hinge in a way that lets it lift higher? And has anyone done it?
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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I took a fairly close look at the hinge and it seems that if i shortened the flat 3/16" steel stop plate it would allow it up a bit. Also if I notched the hinge bracket that attaches to the hatch where it meets the stop, it would give it even more lift.
Thoughts?
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20290 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
I took a fairly close look at the hinge and it seems that if i shortened the flat 3/16" steel stop plate it would allow it up a bit. Also if I notched the hinge bracket that attaches to the hatch where it meets the stop, it would give it even more lift.
Thoughts?
Gordo. |
That torsion spring setup is a pretty ingenious and complicated thing. Are you sure that allowing the hinges more movement would not allow some part of the mechanism to come loose? _________________ nothing |
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