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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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This topic has been beaten to death, I'm sure... but I still haven't found exactly what I needed. So, here's my dilemma:
I have a 1969 Squareback that (eventually) I'd like to convert to a wide-5 setup so I can throw some old school smoothies on there. It currently has a 5x130 Porsche setup, front discs, rear drums. I know it would be easy enough to just buy new rotors/drums in a 4x130 stock setup, but I'm not really a fan of that wheel selection.
If I'm looking to keep discs in front and drums in back, what exactly do I need to make the conversion? Rear drums seem pretty straightforward. But are the front rotors so much wider that they won't fit the stock caliper/spindle? Do I need an entire kit, or just rotors with some additional parts? Is there anything else I need to know before tackling this job? And how can I do it without going completely broke.. if possible 
I'm hoping this isn't too loaded of a post, but I won't be surprised if it is. Thank you guys in advance for the help!
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
"Part of the ship, part of the crew.." |
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Erik G
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LandalftheGray
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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Yaaaa.. this was the thread that scared me initially.
Is there a standard radius for a wide 5 rotor that makes it necessary to use a new caliper bracket? If so, how much larger is it than a regular 4 or 5x130?
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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well, thats the cheap way
You can go Airkewlt or CSP, that review has been done here too
I don't think you are going to do well trying to re-invent the wheel though...
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LandalftheGray
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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Definitely.
I'm not in any rush, so I'm assuming there's a good solution for this circumstance out there somewhere that I'll find eventually.
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
"Part of the ship, part of the crew.." |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| LandalftheGray wrote: |
Definitely.
I'm not in any rush, so I'm assuming there's a good solution for this circumstance out there somewhere that I'll find eventually. |
Yes. The link above. That's the cheap way to go wide 5
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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
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Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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Exactly, which is why I'm not referencing that link. I'm trying to find the right way to do it that isn't a full drum to disc conversion kit. Unless the cheap way is the right way, but it never works out like that.
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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All Wide 5 disc kits are 'drum to disc' conversions because Wide 5 was never disc.
I'm probably one of the few people who've owned all three of the obvious options for wide 5 disc brakes for Type 3.
What are you comfortable doing yourself to achieve a safe properly functioning brake system? If you don't want to modify parts - the Empi ball joint disc brake conversion isn't for you.
Then you have CSP and Airkewld...here's the review on that experience:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=633909
I've purchased four CSP kits now. Expensive? Yes. But they're also complete (minus lug nuts), require no modifications and they are the only kit (that I know of) that has been tested and quality inspected by an outside organization (TUV in Germany). |
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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| All Wide 5 disc kits are 'drum to disc' conversions because Wide 5 was never disc. |
Thanks dude! That's exactly what I wasn't sure of. I knew that original wide-5 setups were all drum, but that's the kind of info I needed for the discs. Is the issue in the bearing size, overall diameter, caliper clearance, etc?
As for modifying parts, I'm fairly comfortable with doing it, just not financially ready to get a full on kit right now. If that's what it's gonna take, then I can save up. But it'll be a while.
I definitely wanna do it right and safe. I guess I'm just a little shocked that there isn't a better option for later models that are already running discs up front. Anyway, thanks again dude!
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
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ataraxia
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Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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If you're looking to keep your existing spindles and modify them - you can do that with the EMPI/AC Industries kit. The only thing you're really changing is the bolt spacing to accommodate the wide 5 bolt circle. The caliper bracket relocates the caliper to fit the rotor that comes in the kit.
I'm not aware of a 'direct swap' for the 4 lug spindle/existing caliper to the wide 5 disc rotor - the aftermarket kits are focused on people who have early wide 5 cars and want to upgrade to disc brakes - not people who want the wide 5 bolt pattern on a 4 lug car. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist - just that I've never heard of it...there is what I refer to as a 'ghetto mod' for 4 lug - wheel spacers on the existing 4 lug rotors/calipers to use wide 5 wheels...but then you have clearance issues with wheels and you wind up with 9 lug bolts per wheel. I'm not a fan of wheel spacers and the whole thing looks janky to me. Half assing brakes doesn't strike me as a great idea.
I don't have any 4 lug brake parts so I can't comment on the diameter vs. the wide 5 rotors from various sources. |
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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
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Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| I'm not aware of a 'direct swap' for the 4 lug spindle/existing caliper to the wide 5 disc rotor - the aftermarket kits are focused on people who have early wide 5 cars and want to upgrade to disc brakes - not people who want the wide 5 bolt pattern on a 4 lug car. |
Absolutely. That totally makes sense, and I could see going that route if I had an earlier car. That's exactly what I mean though, and if it's kind of newer territory then I might just do some safe experimenting myself and post some results. I definitely don't want to Frakenstein my brakes together and then hop on the freeway, of course. I plan on having this thing for a while and just want to do it right.
I'm also not opposed to going back to a stock 4, but I just don't like the selection in that setup as much as a wide-5 (or even a Chevy 5 for that matter). Thanks again though dude! Let me know if you know or hear of anyone who might have done this too 
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22440
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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In my case, on my 64 T-34 I didn't want to modify the stock wide 5 drums in any way (figured the next owner could put the drums back on if they wanted them). I ordered up a used set of spindles from Joel, and modified them to use the AC Industries kit. I didn't use the braided hoses or master cylinder as I had new rubber hoses already, and the MC was for a bug/ghia. Going that route allowed me to take my time and get everything to fit right. Once that was done, it became a bolt on swap, with a front brake bleed. I drove the car out to the Colorado Invasion and back and had no problems at all with the brakes. I even had DoT 5 brake fluid in it.
My son saw how easy it was to do the conversion, and is looking at doing it on his own car when he gets the funds to do so (his car is a 65 but is on 4 lugs).
Don't forget you'll need some wide 5 rear drums. At least those are directly interchangeable. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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Bobnotch, that's awesome man! It's more or less what I'm trying to achieve too.. kind of experimenting with what I have and what I can manage to get my hands on. Rear drums seem fairly easy, but fitting a wide-5 front disc is gonna be the part I have to plan out. That's excellent though.. I'm gonna look into the process you used. Thanks dude!
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
"Part of the ship, part of the crew.." |
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Bobnotch
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Posts: 22440
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| LandalftheGray wrote: |
| Bobnotch, that's awesome man! It's more or less what I'm trying to achieve too.. kind of experimenting with what I have and what I can manage to get my hands on. Rear drums seem fairly easy, but fitting a wide-5 front disc is gonna be the part I have to plan out. That's excellent though.. I'm gonna look into the process you used. Thanks dude! |
I bought the spacer ring/locator ring from Chris (flyinglow), and that sets where you'll need to trim off the ears from the disc spindle. From there it's just a matter of drilling and tapping 3 holes. Chris (the thread starter)spent some time getting things right. Like I said, I got a 2nd set of spindles to re-work, then turned it into a bolt on swap. In that case, you just need to know whether you've got early 68, or mid 68 on which dictates what earing and race combo to use.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Peters Van
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Joined: March 27, 2014
Posts: 357
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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what about these ??????????
maico discs
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ataraxia
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Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| Peters Van wrote: |
what about these ??????????
maico discs |
Other than Aaron - who do you know that has a set? |
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LandalftheGray
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Joined: April 10, 2016
Posts: 52
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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Ohh crazy! What are the special requirements for those? (if any)
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2017 Golf R
1969 Squareback
"Part of the ship, part of the crew.." |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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An ability to find unobtanium and have bottomless pockets.
Last edited by ataraxia on Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gregson1
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Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 464
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| ...and being in the right spot at the right time, as well as being involved in the hobby for a long, long time. |
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daos
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Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 309
Location: Stockholm, SWE
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Wide-5 Disc Brakes |
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| Peters Van wrote: |
what about these ??????????
maico discs |
would love to know more. who makes them? link? |
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