Wiring to coil

[79bugman]

I found this you tube video but when you watch it, please understand that I do NOT have the 2 screws that hold the ignition in and I am not sure why. Probably because this is a 74 and I have a 79 (duh)

I tried putting the key in and turning it (like in the video), but still nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuoWD_46HXw

[79bugman]

I also removed the circlip on the shaft under the steering wheel and I now have a little "play" and it seems like it wants to come out, but it still wont.

Damn! I will keep trying

[79bugman]

OK...for 5 days I have been researching and attempting to get this F@#*ing ignition switch out with no luck.

I looked at every post and you tube video I can find and still have not been able to get it out.

this link is very good and basically shows everything I have done so far with pics...http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=521793&highlight=ignition+switch+replacement+79

I have turned key to ON position and pulled lock assembly... nothing. I turned to "Start" and pulled..nothing\, I have removed the metal circlip, steering wheel, both lights and wiper assemblies, wiring harnesses disconnected, tubes for windsheild wiper fluid disconnected, 6MM screw underneath.........!!!! ARGGGHHH!!!

I don't know what else to take off/out to get the entire assembly out so I can get to the ignition switch assembly.

I am at my wits end and about to get my sledgehammer out if I can figure this out.

PLEASE PLEASE ...ANY IDEAS BEFORE I GO INSANE!

[rustbelt]

Any update?
I'm having the same issue with my 74 SB running last night but I turned the key this morning and nothing, just like what happened to you. I have not yet done any of the testing you've done, but am anxiously following your progress.
Thanks.

[garyt]

Er, well, on my 79 (FI, thank goodness I mess with it!) when I took the steering wheel off and changed the plastic ignition switch, I recall there was a kind of tube of plastic, a bushing, that has a little notch in it to grab, and I used a weird tool I had in my old tool kit just by luck, and twisted this bushing until it started to turn and then slide off. You can get new ones I think. I hope my memory is correct on this... and that this helps and is what's holding you up.

Btw I would take photos as you go for when you have to put it all back.

[garyt]

A bit confused I am as to where you are in this, but... you don't need to take out the ignition key barrel to change the plastic switch module (on a 79 SB at least, if stock), as I recall... the module plugs in at the back of the barrel.

[79bugman]

THANKS garyt "kind of tube of plastic, a bushing" was what was holding it up.

been busy with other things, so the car had to wait

UPDATE

so I got the ignition out, changed the ignition switch (which was brand new) and slid the ignition over the steering colum.

attempted to start car AND ......nothing. same old story.

she wants to start, but wont.

Battery = 13.04V

any ideas now?

I'm at my wits end with this damn car!

[vamram]

Do you have 12v at #15 on the Coil with the key in the ignition and in the ON position? If you're not getting 12v at the coil, you could turn the engine all day and nothing will happen since there's no spark from the coil to the distributor to the plugs.
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[79bugman]

11.4 to # 15 on coil with ignition in "on" position

battery 13.4V

[ashman40]

[79bugman]

thanks ashman...she cranks, but will not start. ... "The engine IS cranking but will not run"

the reason I changed the ignition switch was because all of the other tests I did in this post pointed to a "bad ignition switch." The starter selionid and starter were fine and I was receiving proper voltage with evvery test I completed (per pervious posts)

Yes, this is a completly stock 1600 DP with stock carb (no FI)

I will concuct all the tests on the ignition switch and report back.

Thanks

[Frodge]

Stupid question, but have you verified timing?

[79bugman]

yes, was a little off, but she ran good.

this all started when I took her on her maiden voyage for about 50 miles. I got to where I was going and turned her off.

I went back the next day to start her and ......here we are 6/7 months later.
she wont start.

[79bugman]

TESTS 99.99% COMPLETED......RESULTS

With your voltmeter, test the wires at the bottom of the ignition switch plug:
Key in ON position:

red #30 wire - constant 12v+ MINE HAS 12.1V
black #15 wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 12.2V
black/yellow #X wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 12.1V
red/black #50 wire - 0v MINE HAS 0V

Key in START position:
red #30 wire - constant 12v+ MINE HAS 10.4V
black #15 wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 10.3V
black/yellow #X wire - 0v MINE HAS 1.1V
red/black #50 wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 10.3V


Go to the engine and test the voltage at the #15 (+) terminal of the ignition coil: Key in ON position:

black #15 wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 11.7V

Key in START position (you may need a helper for this test):

black #15 wire - 12v+ MINE HAS 9.9V

<--- if this voltage is less than 10v the coil will not fire. If you have electronic points connected here, they stop working below 12.0v.

Go to the red/black #50 wire under the left rear seat (there is a junction just before the wire exits at the rear next to the center tunnel):
Key in ON position:
red/black #50 wire - 0v MONE IS 0.02V I DID THIS TEST ON BLACK/RED WIRE BEHIND THE DRIVER SEAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHICH GOES THRU THE TUNNEL AND CONNECTS TO THE STARTER

Key in START position (you may need a helper for this test):
red/black #50 wire - 12v+ DID NOT DO THIS YET....HELPER HAD TO LEAVE IN HUGE HURRY....

soooo what does this tell us?

I can see that I am losing voltage from the "ON" to "start" position which I thougt would have been fixed when I installed the new ignition switch.

Thanks

[ashman40]

Since the voltage drops when the engine is cranking it is a sign the battery is weak or the wiring has too much resistance so insufficient voltage is passing thru the wiring.

The voltage at your ignition coil while cranking is TOO LOW. I'd bet the coil is not actually firing while the engine is cranking. Or if it is firing the voltage that makes it to the plugs is too weak.

Try this... Use your battery jumper cables to extend the voltage from the battery posts to the rear of the car. Use a jumper wire to connect the ignition coil #15 to the jumper cable from the positive post so the ignition coil is directly powered from the battery. Measure the voltage at the end of the jumper cable while cranking. Hopefully you will find voltage closer to 12.0v.
If you have an alternator, you could also tap power from the B+ post of the alternator instead of the battery. This post is indirectly connected to the battery positive. Check the voltage while cranking to make sure it is high enough.
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[79bugman]

OKAY.... HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF THE ABOVE

hooked up a jumper wire directly from positve battery post to #15 on coil (i disconnected the black wire coming from the igintion on the coil.)

NOTE: WHEN I DID THIS I HEARD A "CLICKING" IN THE STARTER AREA OF THE CAR. (I'M ASSUMING THIS WAS THE POWER GOING TO THE STARTER SELIONID) AND NOT SOME BIGGER PROBLEM.

battery = 13.1V

with wire hooked directly from positve battery post to #15 on coil, I tested the voltage and had 12.2V. At this time, the ignition was NOT in the ON or START position, but the lights on the speddo were on.

key to "ON" = 12.1V
key to start = 10.8V/10.9V (fluctuating.) when key turned back to ON or OFF postion voltage returns to 12.2V.

with key in the START position, car would crank, but not start.

[ashman40]

[79bugman]

thanks ashman.

YES, i meant the "indicator lamps at the bottom of the speedo -- OIL and GEN lamp"

also, YES, the #15 wire was STILL hooked up to the ignition switch. I did not disconnect it because your directions did not say to. Im glad this was "normal" and not a bigger problem we uncovered.

Thank you for all the help.

I will follow speddy jims link & report back the results. Hopefully, I will be able to get her running in time for spring.

[79bugman]

TEST results.

I followed Speddy Jims link and go to the point where it says "if you have no spark no matter what, go here"

I went there.

I then got to the point where I identified that I DO have power going to the coil. however, with the ignition On,I cranked the engine and my tester did NOT go On and Off twice each revolution. It stayed ON while cranking. Speedy Jim states that this is an indicator that the "points are not closing."

Speddy Jim also identifies the "another rare cause of an "open points" condition is failure of the tiny braided pigtail lead which grounds the advance plate. If the pigtail is broken, the advance plate may only be intermittently grounded. This will cause loss of spark as the advance plate moves or maybe no spark at any time. I THINK THIS IS MY PROBLEM. REMEMBER IN AN EARILIER POST WHERE I "THOUGHT" I FIXED THIS WITH MY HOMEMADE RIG.....I GUESS I DIDNT.

soooo...I have no clue how to change points and I am going to by a whole new distributor just to be on the safe side. I do not have the knowledge or tools to rebuild it and honstly ...i just want to drive my damn car!

I currently have an 050 and have done some research online. what do you think I should by to repalce the 050

thanks for all the help and suggestions.....I'm almost there after a year!

[79bugman]

I have seen this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-D186504-Flame-Thr...istributor

and this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Replacement-Electron...1732105334
(this one I can see the back of the Vacuum canister and it only looks like there is 1 inlet for a vacuum hose. I currently have 2 vacuum hoses on my carb ....will this work?