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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 6000
Location: Brooklyn
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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If your timing is moving around randomly, that's your problem. Now you just gotta figure out why.
Easiest/best case would be the points gap changing. You are aware that if the points gap changes, the timing changes, right? Could be looking at poor-quality points, insufficient or wrong lube on the rubbing block, points hold-down screw stripped, advance plate sticking/hanging up....
If it's none of those things then you're looking at distributor drive gear issues.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24773
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
| .a loose cam gear can cause timing scatter. |
Problem with that idea is the cam gear does not drive the distributor. Cam gear is driven by a steel gear on the crank, while another brass gear on the crank drives distributor and fuel pump gear shaft. So if your cam gear falls off you will still have perfect spark timing to crank and piston movement.
Agree that it could be a slightly loose distributor clamp that is just worn out or cheap after market can cause problem.
Have also seen where one of the distributor drive shaft shims not end up flat at the bottom and DPO hammered in the drive shaft both breaking the shim on one place and jamming it. Which in turn thrashed the brass drive gear on the crankshaft. Timing kept changing due to the damaged brass gear.
Possible that the distributor clamp is bent and holding the distributor upward and/or was the distributor drive shaft not shimmed up enough, causing the gear on the bottom of the distributor to only partly engage.
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| I've looked at the map and you are only 93 miles away. I would be willing to look at the car on a weekend, I was near there just a few weeks ago for a small car show in Siloam Springs. PM me and perhaps we can settle on a time. |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
| Oh good lord,its become a cause....a loose cam gear can cause timing scatter.Timing scatter can cause intermittent starting problems... |
Timing gear on the cam was fine when I installed it.
And the correct backlash too.
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(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle
Last edited by Mr.Duncan on Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I strongly suggest you let Zundfolge1432 look at it.
He is a great guy, and a fantastic person to learn from.
Or.
Ship the car to Houston.
_________________
(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
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enjoyther1de
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: chino,ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Vacuum leak. Probably the vacuum canister for your trans.
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HBB took me to BBV. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| I've looked at the map and you are only 93 miles away. I would be willing to look at the car on a weekend, I was near there just a few weeks ago for a small car show in Siloam Springs. PM me and perhaps we can settle on a time. |
Seriously, take him up on this nice offer.
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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jhvw1976
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2009
Posts: 152
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Have you ever met with this VW group?
http://www.foulairvw.com/
They're in NW Arkansas.
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1976 standard stock FI beetle daily driver |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I have, I was at the show in Siloam Springs. A nice group of folks and they will help each other keep the cars running. Photos of that gathering just a few weeks ago.
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jhvw1976
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2009
Posts: 152
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I'm regretting not taking the drive down with the Slo Mo VDubs group!
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1976 standard stock FI beetle daily driver |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Not to hijack this guys thread but this Saturday is junebug jamboree in Springfield, I'll be there  |
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jhvw1976
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2009
Posts: 152
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I'll be dropping in for the swap meet at least. I'll be in town all weekend for my brother's wedding.
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1976 standard stock FI beetle daily driver |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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so.. you said you put a NOS VW fuel pump on.
Have you checked what pressure its putting out at 3000 rpm?
_________________
(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
so.. you said you put a NOS VW fuel pump on.
Have you checked what pressure its putting out at 3000 rpm? |
Not as of yet as I don't have a fuel pressure gauge.
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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That's the group I met last year where a few of them (president included) promised they'd help me sort out my car only to leave me pissing in the wind. Good thing I had other means of transportation or I'd have lost my job thanks to their empty BS promises. Then when I let them know that's not the typical VW club way, it's "well something came up" and it's MY fault for expecting too much. How about don't make promises you can't keep. Lip service doesn't amount to jack shit for me. Oh yeah and the first meet I went to the president also agreed to sell me a set of heads only to reneg on that offer too. I want zero to do with them anymore. They also tried to set up an "alternative" VW show during the Eureka Springs show last year because their cars wouldn't win and they are sore losers. You didn't miss anything.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| I wood steer clear of groups that help keep each others car running.....these things(bugs too) are pretty simple and should not need constaint attn to keep running. Does it have a good fuel filter? does it have water in the fuel? is the dist wore out? does it have electronic igntion? dpes it have good wires? does it have good sparking bolts? I persoanly dont use oe vw stuff if I can get somethuing else. I do use 2 or 3 vw parts in the engine...do you know what your doing? do you have proper tools? book? good book? prayer book? bently book? I have a pile of books ,none seem to have all the needed info so I have a pile of them when I need to know somethen I start reading each book..yes I can truly read. you may have a loose wire. or dead cam in the dist or addvance not worken right.or somethen else rong. Ive never used a vw carb so...Im lost there. think back to what you changed that caused the issues. tune up? could be dead condensor . or points.or junk plugwires ( I also will not use vw plug wires there junk and no reason at all to be on any car/vehicke. is there greessee on the dist cam so the points rubbing block is lubed?? |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
If your timing is moving around randomly, that's your problem. Now you just gotta figure out why.
Easiest/best case would be the points gap changing. You are aware that if the points gap changes, the timing changes, right? Could be looking at poor-quality points, insufficient or wrong lube on the rubbing block, points hold-down screw stripped, advance plate sticking/hanging up....
If it's none of those things then you're looking at distributor drive gear issues. |
I just installed new points last weekend, the old ones looked pitted (and I was out of ideas anyway) and they read 38 on the dwell meter. So I installed a fresh set of Bosch points gapped to .016, then checked dwell and regapped until I got them to about 46 dwell. Then I reset timing and tuned carb and got timing to 0 TDC (correct for my distributor) at 950 RPMs and dwell dead on at 50. Perfect idle, timing dead on, everything good.
Sure enough I get home from work yesterday and it craps out on me and I check to see timing retarded 7-8 degrees. I know every bit of this sounds like the distributor clamp slipping or not holding tight enough but I have marked the distributor body and the engine case with alignment marks and they were still lined up.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| enjoyther1de wrote: |
| Vacuum leak. Probably the vacuum canister for your trans. |
This would make my autostick shift like crap too. Which it doesn't. I'm not opposed to the idea of a vacuum leak somewhere though.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| sjbartnik wrote: |
If your timing is moving around randomly, that's your problem. Now you just gotta figure out why.
Easiest/best case would be the points gap changing. You are aware that if the points gap changes, the timing changes, right? Could be looking at poor-quality points, insufficient or wrong lube on the rubbing block, points hold-down screw stripped, advance plate sticking/hanging up....
If it's none of those things then you're looking at distributor drive gear issues. |
I just installed new points last weekend, the old ones looked pitted (and I was out of ideas anyway) and they read 38 on the dwell meter. So I installed a fresh set of Bosch points gapped to .016, then checked dwell and regapped until I got them to about 46 dwell. Then I reset timing and tuned carb and got timing to 0 TDC (correct for my distributor) at 950 RPMs and dwell dead on at 50. Perfect idle, timing dead on, everything good.
Sure enough I get home from work yesterday and it craps out on me and I check to see timing retarded 7-8 degrees. I know every bit of this sounds like the distributor clamp slipping or not holding tight enough but I have marked the distributor body and the engine case with alignment marks and they were still lined up. |
Which distributor (bosch number) are you running? I have an autostick core 1968 distributor that's in great condition. I just need to go through it to clean and relube it.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sounds like you have a stickey addvance, either vac or mechanical or both. and or a dead or broken spring. and if the dist cam is rough at all it will do this becasue it's weaqring down the points rubbing block. use some 800 wet and clean it good then lube it with the correct greessee(I would use synthetic but thats me) even some rust can wear down the points changing the dwell&timing. I would consider an electronic dist swap ...(ac.net has some and good advice as to witch one to get for your piticular car.)
Last edited by mark tucker on Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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