Thermostat - yes or no?

[joemama]

So I am contemplating installing a thermostat and flaps in my 1971 bug. I have never run this bug before. I have a complete thermostat, flaps, linkage assembly I can use. For some reason, I feel kind of scared of it, kind of if it aint there, it cant break. Also, the thermostat came off a fuel injected bug, and its rated warmer than what would have come stock on a '71. I live in California, so I am not dealing with freezing temperatures. Whats the up and downside to using it? Is it reliable and trouble free? Any one ever have problems with it? What year were they added, or did bugs always have them?

[vwkirb]

When you install the thermostat make sure you test in tith a heat gun or hair dryer to make sure it's not binding. Then do a couple of a couple of short runs to make sure it's not binding once the engine is warmed up and expanded.

[67jason]

yes run it!
_________________
67 bug x3
67 ghia
64 bug

[Tim Donahoe]

I believe the thermostats for fuel injected engines open at a much hotter temperature. So don't use the one you have.

I live in California where it gets really hot in the summer. But it also gets cool in winter. So in winter, especially, you will get your engine warmed up much faster in winter if you have a proper thermostat, if properly adjusted.

If you want to test a thermostat, be sure to keep it in its bracket while aiming a hair dryer at it. If you don't you can over expand it because it will just keep expanding. I've seen some that grew to six inches and were ruined.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[David_nc_72std]

[Zundfolge1432]

Here's one you shouldn't use

[Zundfolge1432]

[johnnypan]

Know plenty of people who dont...mainly those who lost engines due to them sticking

[gt1953]

VW engineers had them installed at the factory. Do add them to the engine and make sure you have the correct temp. Test the system once it is installed. Imagine if your water cooled car did not have a thermostat.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[pistolpetecowboy]

Make sure your linkage doesn't bind and test with hair dryer/heat gun.
Also check that it has full range of travel and nobody has tweaked the crap out of the rods/other linkage trying to get the fan shrould off. ->
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...mp;start=0
Volkswagen put them in there for a reason, even expansion during warm up, cooler heads, etc.
If it makes you nervous get one of those dipstick temperature sensors or an oil temp gauge.
The original german thermostats fail open for safety and you can get them here:http://www.bugcity.com/shop/shop.htm?pquery=thermostat

If you do decide against running a thermostat, I would suggest leaving the flaps in the shroud and just wiring them wide open.
_________________
70 Beetle, 70 Beetle, 71 Beetle, 71 Super, 73 Super, 74 Beetle, 2000 Vintage Speedster, 2020 Jeep Renegade, 71 Squareback

[pwmcguire]

[glutamodo]

You think that one's bad....

link to thread

_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[Tim Donahoe]

Thus, when testing do NOT heat up the thermostat unless it's in the confines of it's bracket. And only heat it until it reaches the top of the bracket. All you need is about a 5/8 inch expansion, anyway. That's all the movement you're going to get (or need) when the thermostat is installed.

Some people like to throw the thermostat in a pot of boiling water when testing. The previous pictures show the results. I simply use my wife's hair dryer. It doesn't take long for the test.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[johnnypan]

[busdaddy]

[Aussiebug]

Top post Busdaddy.

The thermostat and movable flaps have SEVERAL functions. When shut(cold) the flaps still allow about 25% airflow so the thermostat will see some air and work when it's supposed to. The engine warms much faster with the thermostat installed, and the cabin heater starts to work much sooner. The time for the thermostat to open the flaps approximates the time that the choke opens, so the engine works smoother both cold and hot.

When the thermostat opens, the outer movable flap touches the bottom of the heads, creating a separate air path inside the should for the heads and cylinders. Since the airflow from the fan flows outwards to the outer edges of the fan shroud, the result is a little more air to the hotter heads, and a little less to the less-hot cylinders.

No thermostat means slower engine warm-up, greater engine wear, less effective cabin heater.

No movable flaps means less effective cooling of heads and cylinders.

Very clever, those German engineers.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

[glutamodo]

incidentally, I was looking through the 1966 Without Guesswork and spotted this:

_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[bomberbob]

I have had a beetle, two type 3, and a bus. None had thermostats except for the one type 3 on the island of Guam. It was stuck closed, so I wired it open.
The beetle spent probably a decade on the Mojave desert. I never thought that much about it. I just drove them.
Now, the derelict I bought off of ebay still had the thermostat in I, so I think I will keep it. Its a novelty.
_________________
1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[rockerarm]

Joemama, Hi.
You are in a perfect position to answer many of your own questions. If I were in your position I would:
1- Verify and document the engine's condition/tune.
2- Buy the Berg/Save a Bug oil temp dipstick, which is locally avail for about $35.
3- Install the dipstick and cruise around the local area and verify the little metal rods position, if not overheating around town.
4- Run your car down the 2 freeway from La Cresenta to the end and verify the dipsticks position.
5- Now run your car back up the 2 freeway from the previous spot back up the hill and see if the dipstick shows any overheating, via a glowing oil lite.
6- Document your results.
7- R&R your engine and install the complete flaps assembly.
There are a few things to inspect/repair/install at this point, such as hoover bit, foam on cooler , debris on cylinders/heads, etc. But improvements here can influence readings.
8- Repeat your local driving and the 2 "freeway run".

Please recognize the thermostat/flap system serves two functions, at least. One, proper warm ups and two, proper deflection of air to the cyl heads and upper parts of the cyl's. If still online Gene Berg Ent had many writings about this subject. Mr Berg's info is 40 years old, and still valid! I guess I'm a hypocrite as my daily driver overheated (previous owner) has no flaps in the shroud now.
Hope this helps, Bill.
Let me know if you need any help with this as I'm using this method (the 2 freeway) as a test.

[sb001]

I just pulled mine. As is it was probably not doing much of anything anyway since I couldn't install it correctly (more on that below), but my bigger concern was that the pushrod on mine was not correctly oriented and might jam up inside the cylinder head fins, or cause the (too large) bolt/ nut on the flap arm securing my air cleaner cable to jam up against the fan shroud flap mounting screw. Until I pull the fan shroud and get all that fixed, it's better to run it without.

As long as you are sure that you can install it correctly and nothing is jamming it I have no problem with it.

Now, as mentioned earlier, here's some enjoyable reading for you:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor