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Schwing
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Joined: May 10, 2009
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Location: Centreville, MD
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 Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Maybe this belongs in the stupid question thread, I don't know.
It is not mentioned in the Bentley and I was unable to find my answer performing a search.
I have 1.7L Type IV engine. On my original fuel pump there are 3 ports. I was able to identify fuel in/fuel out from my diagram I drew upon disassembly but I don't remember anything on this third port.
My new Pierburg has the same third port and it measures 4mm in diameter.
Whats it for?
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aeromech
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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I believe it's an overboard drain. Usually nothing should come out of it.
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pioneer1
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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before mine broke off it had a small length of drain hose on it
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williamM
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Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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X2- if the diaphragm breaks - that funnels the fuel away from hot exhaust usually had a little line on it.
Are you putting your fuel lines on before install? It's a lot easier.
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SamboSamba22
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Joined: August 06, 2015
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Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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| Schwing wrote: |
Maybe this belongs in the stupid question thread, I don't know.
It is not mentioned in the Bentley and I was unable to find my answer performing a search.
I have 1.7L Type IV engine. On my original fuel pump there are 3 ports. I was able to identify fuel in/fuel out from my diagram I drew upon disassembly but I don't remember anything on this third port.
My new Pierburg has the same third port and it measures 4mm in diameter.
Whats it for?
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Correct, it is an overflow (vent) line.
What are you opinions on the Pierburg pump? Could you upload some photos, I am currently using a Omega pump and really am having issues with the overall condition and operation of this unit, curious if there are better alternatives out there for mechanical pumps.
Thank you,
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Schwing
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Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2506
Location: Centreville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Guys I appreciate the fast response and I was thinking it was a breather of sorts, but an overflow makes good sense.
@ pioneer one I will install a 6-8" strip of vac adv line scraps I have laying around, we shall see if that fits since it may be the best size. I like the idea of redirecting the fuel away like that.
@SamboSamba22 to be honest I haven't used the Pierburg yet but the quality seems better than my original pump. In the spirit of time I simply purchased this unit already rebuilt by someone else here in the classifieds and I will let you know how I like it. Here is the Pierburg, my hands are much cleaner in this pic  :
Also I will let you know if it works since I am starting this engine for the first time tonight, I hope 
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SamboSamba22
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rugblaster
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Originally the line that goes to that port was vented through the engine tin that is attached to the heater box on the same side of the engine as the fuel pump. There is a hole in the tin for the hose to pass through. If the diaphragm ruptures, fuel will drain out the hose instead of going into the engine case.
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chimneyfish
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Brilliant photos here from mcdonaldneal, showing the concept.
When my diaphragm split last year, it p*ssed out all over the road, rather than into the tinware, and the bus stopped. It went straight onto the road as I prefer to let mine hang out, rather than tuck it away.
What do others do on here, do you like to let yours hang, or do you tuck it away as VW intended?
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notchboy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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| rugblaster wrote: |
| Originally the line that goes to that port was vented through the engine tin that is attached to the heater box on the same side of the engine as the fuel pump. There is a hole in the tin for the hose to pass through. If the diaphragm ruptures, fuel will drain out the hose instead of going into the engine case. |
As I found it on my 74 as well. I think it odd that the fuel is diverted to below the head right where the hottest part of the exhaust is?
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atmellovw
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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What do others do on here, do you like to let yours hang, or do you tuck it away as VW intended?
Well.... who wants to be the first to answer this? 
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notchboy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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| atmellovw wrote: |
What do others do on here, do you like to let yours hang, or do you tuck it away as VW intended?
Well.... who wants to be the first to answer this? |
Get a low pressure electric pump. No tucking needed.
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
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chimneyfish
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Best hanging free, waving in the fresh air is what I say!
(Seriously, as Notchboy refers to above, it's a strange concept. But apparently gasoline / petrol will ignite without a spark at aproximately 495° F (232° C). It would be evaporating way before that point, and the temp should not be getting up there to that temperature? So VW seem to have done their maths).
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rugblaster
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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On Type 1's, I have drained fuel out the entire capacity of the engine case when the pump fails and drains fuel in the case. You think it would explode or at least gall the bearings, but no. Change pump and oil and go again. That air blast at the bottom of the heater box is enough to evaporate the fuel I suppose. I don't know why they did it that way. If you were to ask one of them, I'll guarantee you they would have some no nonsense, to the point explanation and any idea to the contrary would be met with a stern stare, and a "zis is zee way it is done!"
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Well technically it's a breather as well as a drain, the cavity on the opposite side of the diaphragm has to vent or the diaphragm wouldn't be able to move, tucking it into the tin strains out the larger bits of road debris and dust.
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chimneyfish
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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Well, taking busdaddy's words on board, I suppose I should really consider tucking mine back away out of public view!
Does anyone know where you can get the grommet in the tin and/or its part number? Or is it just a generic open grommet? My grommet is missing.
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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That's the first time I've ever seen a grommet there, most are just stuffed through a bare hole, if it ever saws through that hose it's not going to cause some sort of catastrophy anyways.
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timvw7476
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Location: seattle
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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| notchboy wrote: |
| atmellovw wrote: |
What do others do on here, do you like to let yours hang, or do you tuck it away as VW intended?
Well.... who wants to be the first to answer this? |
Get a low pressure electric pump. No tucking needed. |
Delete that archaic piece, as soon as you go electric your bus will fire up
when you tap the key, just like a modern vehicle, instead of that crank
crank crank noise you get when the engine is too cold or too hot.
That insulator that shields that pump?
Take a good look at the bolts that hold it all together, engine heat travels
right through those bolts into the pump body itself, pretty much a vapor lock dream machine. Ditching that engine driven pump was the best thing I ever did for my bus. |
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vwwestyman
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Schwing
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Type IV fuel pump - question |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Thanks for the pic. I am searching all over for a rebuild kit for the APG pump, but I'm thinking that's pretty darn slim.
Curious if I can track down a pierburg kit or pump.
Good luck tonight. Rooting for a good, groovy rythym. |
I appreciate the positive wishes, but nothing so far. All I got was a couple of random sputters. Interestingly enough the overflow port is dripping fuel.
The engine bay smells like fuel so I believe fuel is getting to the carbs. I static timed my Pertronix at TDC but then I read you cannot do that. Hoping its a timing/spark issue at this point.
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