New paint/body booth - need help with light/vent/air, etc

[andk5591]

Not after a "pro-shop" but maybe in par with average collision shop. Looking for tried and true advice/suggestions. Want to do this once, but also not after a Taj Mahal either.

Nitty Gritty details:
Addition to existing shop. Approx 13.5'Wx20'D. Shed roof, 8' ceiling at low side and 10' on high side. 10' wide door on one end. No windows, one man door. Using insulated garage door panels (2" foam filled". white metal skin) to cover internal walls and ceiling. All joints will be caulked. Just had the floor poured a couple days ago and had smooth finish done. Will be using spray on concrete sealer in a couple more days.

The plan is to use this for all body and paint. Meaning that I am doing this so the entire inside can be power washed before setting up to paint. Mostly will be bodys on dollies and doors, fenders etc. Not too many complete cars will go in. Will put up some sort of hangers or something for suspending parts. With me so far?

Lighting - 3 equally spaced 4' 2 tube fixtures in the long ceiling wall corners set at 45 degree angle. One of same fixture on each end wall as well. (8 fixtures total with the daylight 6000K bulbs.) Planning on fitting those prismatic difuser panels (cut to 6"x48" strips) in front to help protect bulbs and get the light difused.

Strip of same wavelength LED strip lights about 3 from floor around entire shop except garage door.

Using positive pressure ventilation. Exhaust is in one corner with a 16x16 louvered panel 5' abpve the floor running to a floor to ceiling "box" with 20x20 filters set at floor, 3' and 6' levels. Air intake is on the opposing corner built into the man door. 24x24 openings cut into upper and lower halves of the door with shelf and brackets to support 2 box fans with double stacked 24x24 filters pulling heated air from main shop.

Will have 1 20a circuit with 2 receptables and a 15A circuit for lighting. Fans will connect to an existing circuit in the main shop. May or may not install 50A for welder. Thinking it may be handy being able to weld in there....Not sure yet.

Any issues with the above - YEAH I KNOW - not explosion proof lights. Taking my chances

Need air connection - will be HVLP, but also some old style gun used instead of rattle cans for tins, suspension stuff, etc. Need regulator, dryer, filter etc - Who makes a decent one that is not ungodly expensive. What kind and how much air hose?

What an I missing? And once again - looking for folks with experience. I plan on having this done by the 15th, so I need to get stuff ordered if needed. Thanks!
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[jspbtown]

What kind of filters and what kind of fans?

[andk5591]

Not sure yet on filters - probably the better quality pleated fans for intake. Will probably use doubled up cheap fiberglass ones for exhaust.

Fans - planning on using 2 box fans mounted on the existing shop side of the man door. (These will bring warm air into the booth through the pleated filters.)

What I understand about air flow is that you want air movement, but not a breeze. Hoping the 2 box fans can be run at low speed. They will be blowing across the narrow dimension of the shop behind the car. May use some sort of difuser for the fans though. Kicking around a panel on the booth side of the fans to difuse the air better. Not sure if needed or not.

I almost was going to do one of those PVC pipe/clear plastic sheet things for one of my bays, but felt I would use this enough - always need to paint some small parts.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[jspbtown]

Well I mounted a pretty good sized fan in the wall of my shop (Got it from Tractor Supply) to blow air out and then use a small box window fan and AC unit to blow in air from the outside. The small window fan & AC unit use a pleated furnace filter and the same is used on the wall fan.

A couple of things I noticed:
1. You need a LOT of flow to get your paint "fog" out of the area. I think you might be surprised at how quickly your room fills with paint (its not like you see on TV...they have REAL booths) and how slowly it will leave the room.

2. The filters plug up very fast. I usually start out with them on my exterior fan but end up getting a bit frustrated as they barely last one coat before they need to be changed. If you realistically wanted to use that type of filter I would say it would take at least two filters per coat. It can get costly.

My fan is not "explosion proof" per se but I have painted 8 or so cars with it and its not been a problem. I do not turn it on and off during the process

[eshan2]

Ventilation is calculated roughly width times hight times 100 will give you a close number for cfm. Then you look for the fan to do it. Based on your dimensions using the 10 ft ceiling height you are looking at 13,500 cfm of air movement. This is for cross draft. Downdraft drops to 50 instead of 100 with gravity assisting.
_________________
I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
1963 Beetle currently under reconstruction.
Ernest.

[andk5591]

This is becoming one of those, the more you learn, the less you know. I have taken all of your information (THANKS!!) and also am doing additional research. (have heard the downdraft booth term, but didnt really know what it is - very cool)

Conclusions so far: I am going to make my best attempt at something that will not be a real production spray booth, but more akin to the temp ones that folks have been making, but a permanent structure. Once again - I do VWs. Most painting will be on suspension and body components and an ocasional body shell. The big compromise is going to be the ventilation due to cost etc. BUT a lot of this thing is going to be screwed together, so if I REALLY need to make changes, I can.

No way am I going to get to the 13,000 cfm, but I can get about halfway there with filtered man-door mounted intake fans. Lightbulb moment - Now I undertstand the need for lots of filters area on the exhaust side...

I have handed the task of picking the air regulator/filter over to the painter. This way he cant bitch about it

Thanks again!
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[jspbtown]

I have very successfully used this filter:

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/devilbiss-camair-qc3-air-filter-dryer-130525-p-16233.aspx

And of course you MUST use the small filters at the gun.

This is the fan unit I used:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/maxxair-h..._vc=-10005

I create a 12x20 "spray booth" out of tarps I hang from hook in the ceiling. I built a wooden box around the fan that has a lip that accepts a standard size furnace filter. When my "booth" is fully fogged it takes about 1 minute to clear it out pretty well.

[andk5591]

Cool- Thanks
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[eshan2]

I have a 16X30 with 12 foot ceiling and I just use a big belt drive attic fan mounted in the back wall. I have nowhere near the needed airflow but it works well for my purposes. I have sprayed a bay window bus, a homebuilt plane, a vette , a kitted vw roadster,etc with no problems even did an oval window car. Yes it can get foggy but it does not stay too long. There are some pictures in my gallery.
_________________
I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
1963 Beetle currently under reconstruction.
Ernest.

[andk5591]

FYI - moving along nicely with the booth - about another week and it should be done. Will post pics when finished. Got an air dryer/regulator from Eastwood for about $250. Already have another water separator right on the compressor. I let the painter pick it so he can't bitch at me for a shitty unit.

Heres what I am doing for lighting - booth is 13x19. Shed roof, so ceiling is 9' on high side, a little over 7 on low side. Running 3 4' 2 tube daylight T8 fixtures equally spaced in the ceiling/wall corners down each long side and 1 4' 2 tube on each short wall. All have the prismatic difusers. Here's something that may be cool. Running LED daylight strip lights about 3' from floor the whole way around the booth except over the door. Dimmable remote.

Vent system. 18" louvered vent in one corner with a box fan helper fan with a floor to ceiling 6" deep plenum with 4 20x20 filters. Doing 3 box fans on the man door with filters drawing air from heated shop - this is in the opposing corner of the exhaust.

Walls and ceiling are covered with 1" foam filled white garage door panels. Have a local place that sells factory seconds. probably has a thousand in various sizes. With the panels and having everything caulked and such, after any body work is done, the car can be rolled out and the entire booth can be power washed before painting. That's the theory anyway.

Have to pick up a couple pieces of perforated angle iron to screw to ceiling for hanging panels and fenders.

Once its done, will post pics and after the first paint job will let you know how it works.

A bit over budget - total cost (not including initial excavation and retaining wall that ended up being part of the one wall) $6200 ($2K was the slab). Figure it will pay for itself after 2 or 3 paint jobs.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[CiderGuy]

Please post some pictures, would love to see what you've done.
_________________
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Cars Currently Owned:

1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)

Timing is everything

[andk5591]

Will do - Until its finished, you can see progress pics on my facebook page - look for AC2 aircooled. And there are a lot of How-to's for homemade paint booths online using PVC pipe and plastic sheeting. I pondered that, but then really realized that I have and will always have something that is going to need some paint or body work. I mean hell, even having a nice place to hang engine tins so they can be rattle canned is going to be nice. So, I can justify the expense. And worse case if its idle for any length of time (which I doubt) I can store a car in there.

The other thing, I want to keep bondo dust etc, out of my main workshop.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Joseph DR]

I made a temporary booth in my two car garage. This is what I did and hope this helps you somewhat:

1. Three long, T5 high output fluorescent lights (super bright)
2. PVC pipe and painter's sheeting. Use painter's sheeting (with label "PAINT THIS SIDE" on it, not the Home Depot kind.)
3. Two box fans up high on the intake side w/filters
4. Two box fans low on the exhaust side w/filters
5. Door to get in booth is by the exhaust fans. Do not put it by the intake side because you don't want trash/debris floating/landing on your car when coming in/out of booth.

I set the fans on high and it creates a great positive air pressure environment. I sprayed epoxy and everything looks great so far.
_________________
1964 Beetle

[Dake]

[Joseph DR]

I got the roll at my local auto paint supply shop. I'm sure your jobber will have some, too.

For those who don't know, regular plastic sheeting can cause any over spray to flake off and land on your freshly painted bug. The special auto painter's sheeting is designed to have any over spray stick to the plastic and not flake off.

Dake, as soon as my cell phone is charged, I'll take and post pics of my setup.

EDIT: It's called Paintable Sheeting. The one I have is 16' X 350' (10 mils thick) for approx. $35. The 10 mils is too thin so I left it doubled over. As long as you have a good seal and the label "PAINT THIS SIDE" on the inside you are good to go.
_________________
1964 Beetle

[Joseph DR]

My temporary paint booth:

Two intake box fans w/filters mounted high. Filters are on the outside of booth.

My lil' helper

Two exhaust box fans w/filters mounted low. Filters should be on the inside of booth. They are off right now as I was getting ready to put new ones on.

Place the door by the exhaust fans. Mine is made of cardboard and duck tape. It's cheap-looking but seals up good.

I have negative air pressure when sanding and positive air pressure when spraying. This can be adjusted with the fan speeds.
_________________
1964 Beetle

[andk5591]

I had seen some of those on the 'net and was considering going that route, but the way things are looking, I will have something in the booth probably for at least the next couple years. But for a once in a blue moon painting, the plastic set up is the way to go. Yeah - on the plastic, you can get monsterous rolls at places like Lowes.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[CiderGuy]

I bought this with the intention of making it into a small spray booth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/10-ft-x-17-ft-portable-garage-62860.html
_________________
----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:

1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)

Timing is everything