Engine CSV fire, even after everything is done right

[Clatter]

So,

This is the LAST thing I'm going to say here.
I'm done.

Been bussing all over this great country of ours since around 1988.

I have hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt.
Been from Tehachapi to Tonopah and always done my own work.

No, I'm not some kind of smart-guy engineer, or have 10,000 posts on the Samba (like that means anything ) or go to club functions or whatever.

I have messed with a LOT of busses and worked on/off as a mechanic since I was 15.

The ONE BEST THING I have learned, is to get rid of that POS cold start valve.
They leak, and start fires.
Back when these busses were everywhere, I saw it a LOT!

I say "try it!" and nobody listens.
It's like I'm in some kind of time-warp, 1984, or Stepford Wives or something.
There is an army of blind lemmings marching to their destruction, and there is nothing to be done about it...

So have fun with your CSV, guys!
Make sure to buy a Blazecut,
Or, better yet, post your pic in the burning busses thread!
I tried!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[curtp07]

Just what are you trying to say??


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Subaru

[Clatter]

I just...can't...sit..and....watch.


People are saying this and that about that piece of SHIT un-needed CSV!!



How fucking THICK are these people!?!?!


I KNOW now not to listen to a SINGLE thing any of the FOOLS on this forum say!!!


Oh,
Sorry,
I said I was done already..

Back to watching busses needlessly burn..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[derwagonwerks]

While I am not opposed to eliminating the cold start valve,for the following reasons: as pointed out here,cause of fire, obsolete part,Bosch quit making these a while ago,you can still find them new,but they are exsisting inventory,THE NEWEST USED ONE is going to be 34 years old. If you eliminate it you will have starting problens when cold,ambient air temp, or sitting for a period of time. Since the injectors will be the only source of fuel delivery and they only fire once on every second crankshaft revolution,you won't get enough fuel for cold start,add that the aux air valve will still be functioning and you are attempting to start on a very lean condition. On a carbed motor,the choke shuts off air and your pumping the accelorator adds additional fuel. If you have a very good well charged battery,you will start,assuming that ign timing etc is correct. If you have a poor battery,you may run out of battery before you get enough fuel to start, or somewhere in between,you may flood the engine (the purpose of the thermal time switch is to shut down CSV to prevent flooding due to continuous cranking) Just be aware of this if you do eliminate the CSV. While I am a big fan of this AFC injection even though it is stupid (no O2 to correct AF mixtures under different conditions) the availability of some parts (new) is becoming an issue. In addition to the CSV,bosch has stopped production of the cyl head temp sensor.

[cmonSTART]

Sort of going over this on my own bus right now - not happy with the CSV - it feels like it should go. Any problem with them starting in the cold without one? That's my only hang up - it gets pretty cold here in NH.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[curtp07]

Which is why Im taking a fall road trip to CT to visit the subaru man himself....hopefully i can schedule something for the winter and be done with it....keep the type 4 engined bus for the occasional drive and use the Subaru powered bus for the real trips!
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Subaru

[curtp07]

And to answer the question on hard starting without the CSV (with a failed CSV), I can tell you from experience here in Mass...

Didnt do a laboratory study on the temps but roughly speaking:

Above 60 it's not much more cranking

Below 50 it's quite a bit more cranking (approx 15-20 seconds cranking total in bursts). 15-20 doesnt sound like much but when you're used to the other bus hitting on a couple turns it is....
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Subaru

[Wildthings]

[Tcash]

You could install a cable to push the air flap open. Fooling the ECM into thinking it is wide open throttle. This would increase the injector pulse width.

Or how about a fuel injector instead of a cold start valve?

Tcash

[BayCreamPuff]

Hit this crimp point a couple times with a 1/16th pin punch. Tightened it right up.

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Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile

Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia

Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[timvw7476]

[quote="BayCreamPuff"]Hit this crimp point a couple times with a 1/16th pin punch. Tightened it right up.

[/quote
The more I look at that CSV, the more I distrust it, fuel flows through it,
it's plumbed into the "loop" running the perimeter of the engine, absorbing
every pulse from the fuel pump.
I'd like to unplug one & see how it starts, cold, but I'm carbed at this
time.
Some F.I. people should do testing, from sea level to whatever, and make
angry Clatter & the rest of us curious watchers happy. ]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I just drove the price of CSV's up

there is NO O-ring

it's hard to tell, but it seals plastic to metal....and there is corrosion on the bore

so, driving these old junks is like pulling the pin on a hand grenade....just hope you don't let go of the handle


this one was loose. I suspect the corrosion/vibration gets after them and poof...

now seeing the insides, I would convert to a carb in a second....or a 2.5
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[curtp07]

So there goes the dry o-ring theory....

Nice work!
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Subaru

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[curtp07]

I like what you said about the corrosion and vibration...it's amazing that the plunger sits in there with nothing except the plastic housing.
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Subaru

[Rubber Duck]

So clatter was right...I was reading his posts with amusement...almost like the rantings and ravings of a madman. But, it turns out, just like Jesus...he knew something most of us didn't know.

I think you put it really well skills:

[curtp07]

Skills...the more I look at that picture the more is looks like there is no way for fuel to exit that plastic sleeve other than from the injector outlet which would be in the plenum...is that correct??

Thanks again for doing this work!
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Subaru

[aerosurfer]

Weird... Indeed. Skills what am I looking at in your second pic? I keep staring and I see the bottom half is the plastic housing, but what is the little metal cylinder?

If failing o-ring is a done theory, then perhaps the housing does nothing more than attach it to the plenum.

Does this renew a possible electrical short conspiracy then from the harness in an oddly similar location
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)

[Wasted youth]

So what about Tcash's idea of substituting another injector? Is there room? Volume and discharge pressure/duration significantly different?

What about a better CSV from another manufacturer?