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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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The question is.... How would you approach it?
Everything in me wants to sell the car and just move on to something with a few less headaches. The problem is, I've had this car for 18 years. I got this car when I was 14 (it was my first car) and worked on it for about 3 years before I ever got to drive it (don't worry I bought another vw to drive while I worked on this). That's the back story. In short, I was 14 had never done body work, had never prepped a car for paint and didn't have a clue what I was doing. Honestly the car just needed a good buff but I didn't know that at the time.
fast forward to 2016.....
I don't have money to redo the paint properly. If I'm going to drop money into a paint job, I'm going to send the car off to someone like Buddy Hale and have my dream Cal looker built (unfortunately this isn't a '67). That being said I wouldn't be opposed to sanding some of this current paint smooth buying a couple of cans off of paint scratch and trying to color match it. What would you guys do?
Honestly if I don't do that, the only other thing I might do would be to try and smooth out the chips and put a layer of clear over the whole thing to prevent it from chipping and fading more.
On to part 2........
The only major rust on the whole car is in the front quarter panel at the seam. How should I go about fixing this or should I just let it go until that time when I have 50k to dump into the ultimate looker?
TIA for any advice.
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Bama Dave Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2015 Posts: 963 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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I would bet that most of us, me included, cannot afford a high dollar paint job. We do the work ourselves as much as our capability allows, then outsource the rest when money is available. My guess is that you can correctly do much of the repair/prep work yourself, now that you are older and wiser. And, you might be able to get the final prep and paint at a local body shop for a reasonable amount. My paint job looks great and I only had to have a pro spray it as I did not have the equipment/facility to do it. Cost me $1K for the pro to do the final steps. I did all the bodywork...took me months, but I know exactly what is under the paint. It all depends on your location, patience and budget. Lots of threads here about rust removal, paint removal, prep, on and on. Good luck. _________________ David Richerson
1970 Beetle
1971 Super
1972 Baja
hellthorne wrote: |
First off, I know i made stupid decisions that led to my predicament, so while you are welcome to tell me that I am an idiot for doing the things I did, please know that I am already aware of this. |
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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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I appreciate the response Dave. I'm sure that with time and the patience I've accumulated over the years my outcome would be much better a second time around. That being said though, I've got a 3 year old and a 1 year old that demand both the time and the patience I've accumulated. More than likely I will just rock it as is for the time being.
I would however love some advice concerning the rust on the front passenger quarter. For the longest time the door was frozen shut. But, with lots of PB blaster via a healthy daily dosage for 2-3 weeks and some careful negotiating, it is as smooth as ever and I can feel both clicks of the latch.
Is the only solution to this to remove the front quarter panel and re-butt the seam? Has anyone else made a repair like this that can lend some advise? |
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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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here's a rough photo of the car just cause.....
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17974 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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You won't ever have the 10-20K needed, so do it yourself now One fender at a time. Primer or paint the one fender & move on to the next fender. Keep it driveable as you work on it? You can do that in 1 year on the cheap! Medium compressor,air drill,spot blaster,spray gun etc as you need them. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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Sorry Mike I just saw your reply. I agree, even if I had the money, I couldn't justify spending that kind of money on it. I really like the idea of 1 fender at a time, then moving to the panels. I had it off the road for about 2.5 years when I decided to do a full pan swap and restore. I don't want to do that again. (what could've been a weekend job quickly turned to 2 1/2 years)
I think I'll take that suggestion and run with it. |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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You can color match your paint at an auto paint store and have them put it into some nice spray cans that have an adjustable nozzle. Works better for BC/CC.
For the seam, you'll have to grind it down to bare steel first to see what you have to work with. I had paint bubbles on that section of my car, but got lucky and still had steel left to work with. I treated the rust and seam sealed that seam before all primers and top coats. If your missing steel, you'll need to cut off all rust until you're back into solid steel. Then you can begin to build that area back up with strips of 18 gauge steel and a MIG welder. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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Great thoughts! thank you. I'll definitely do that with my rusted area. I bought a color matched can off Paint Scratch a while back based on my paint code but I think I'll hit the paint shop up this time with my glove box door and see if I can't get a better actual match. |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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Jos.Hall wrote: |
Great thoughts! thank you. I'll definitely do that with my rusted area. I bought a color matched can off Paint Scratch a while back based on my paint code but I think I'll hit the paint shop up this time with my glove box door and see if I can't get a better actual match. |
The paint shop can take your door and scan it with some device that translates what it picks up into an exact paint code. I couldn't tell the difference in color once it dried, next to the original parts of my car. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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beetlenut wrote: |
Jos.Hall wrote: |
Great thoughts! thank you. I'll definitely do that with my rusted area. I bought a color matched can off Paint Scratch a while back based on my paint code but I think I'll hit the paint shop up this time with my glove box door and see if I can't get a better actual match. |
The paint shop can take your door and scan it with some device that translates what it picks up into an exact paint code. I couldn't tell the difference in color once it dried, next to the original parts of my car. |
For those who care.......
Yes....its called a spectrophotometer. Some call it a densitometer....older name. Same tool made by the same companies...that all commercial printers use for color checks.
Most large paint jobbers have one. It uses a set calibrated light source....very specific. It looks at absolute color, can account for gloss, matt etc.
Breaks it down to CMYK and/or RGB......and assigns color coordinates in all off the known color "spaces"/universes. ...like Lab, munsell (military industrial color spec), RAl (european and powdercoating/metal enamels) etc.
Most of the automotive ones also break it down further to assign to or match up to whatever color mixers/resins they are using in house.
Dupont sells versions of the tool with the color coordinates for several of their series of toners/mixers.......or the paint jobber can spray snd then read whatever series of paints he is using and program it themselves. ....or most paint mfgs....dupont, ppg etc....have downloads for their paints.
The result ranges from dead on to very close....to just cant get it...to the color you are working with.
But.....these are the reasons for variations. If you are dealing with a really old or very odd color whose natural pigments in the industry have changed widely over time.......or a color whose opacity and brightness were boosted with lead, chrome or cadmium.....generally not available in most modern paint series......you can have significant color variation. .....because even though the spectro can get you a color formula.....the ingredients to make it....may not exist....or may not exist in the series/brand you are working with.
The other huge variation in color for paint (or any mixed colorant from ink to powdercoating)......it a problem called "metamerism"....where colors change radically under different light sources.
In complex paint colors....typically those with more than 3-4 different pigments in them, or with lots of metallic ingredients.....or pastel tints that are made with more than about 20% white......the risk is very high that it will be a metameric or light changing color because the ingredients reflect differently under every light source.
The addition of large amounts of white....say....likke making a gray or tan.....is the most dangerous for this. White.....reflects the entire range of the spectrum....and there is rarely a single ingredient or single pigment white available.....so many whote paints already have several other colorants in them.
Every single white paint in every series is totally different.
Just some things to keep in mind. Ray |
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Jos.Hall Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2011 Posts: 336 Location: Sunny So Cal.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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Great info! thanks Ray. Do you work in the industry? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Really Shotty old paint job and also some rust. |
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Jos.Hall wrote: |
Great info! thanks Ray. Do you work in the industry? |
I actually ....currently and for some time.....have worked in the Industrial printing industry. That definition ranges very wide......from industrial graphics ranging from decals to nameplates.....through specialty printing on large pre-shaped or post formed metal, plastics and glass (like appliances, glass, automotive, aerospace).....through small precsion printing (control panels and instruments)......up through electronics (solar, printed circuits of all types).....medical and industrial printed sensors and electrodes.
This is after many years as well in commercial printing (offset and flexo)
So I deal with color matching of not only inks but of a huge range of coatings, paints and mixtures.....that are either used in place of proper inks or are the base/underlay that inks are printed on.
To a large degree.....color matching technology is the same across all industries that require it. Its actually pretty higjly evolved and high tech. Ray |
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