TFI Ignition Control Module w/stock points/distributor trigger

[modok]

Yes Ray I caught it. What toyota and VW did with coils in the 80's is certainly a good example of opposite approaches.
IMO history favors the toyota But they both do fire a plug a lot better than a "blue coil"

Nick, yes it does seem to be possible to build such a thing. I guess we can blame the lack of such a thing existing commonly on......lack of interest?
There is a company in austrailia making a booster, but it only handles 4 amps, and costs 70$, and.....that's not very impressive.

I might build it if I had no other choice.
That's how I'm getting into transmissions, I have no desire to smell like gear oil, but my desire to have all five gears working is greater.

[miniman82]

Same here, that's how I got into MS to start off with. People are always figuring out better ways to do things, for me it doesn't get more elegant than EDIS coil pack/crank sensor. Personally I'll never go back to having a distributor, but having a high current driver box that's cheap would probably appeal to a lot of people at the $20 price point- especially if it accepts input from points/opti/mag.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[Lingwendil]

Has anybody been able to find a TFI connector that is longer than a half foot, or is uncrimped like a bunch of the EFI connectors floating around? It would be nice to make up my own rather than gutting a van or splicing it...
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[raygreenwood]

[Lingwendil]

Well, got the module bolted up to an old heatsink, and made up a bracket to attach it to my kadron linkage. Ran the ground to an extra coil three-way terminal I had, and ran a separate ground from there to the firewall, although it's probably not needed. Got the timing set properly (it was somehow creeping up to around 45° and I think the hold down bracket was loose. Set to 31° now, and the module has proved a nice addition to the system.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Frank Bassman]

Nice. That heatsink has some nice finnage.

So I am going to pull the trigger on a new coil for my car... ( I think my current coil is beginning to act up some when hot in the midrange rpm range. It is an older coil. Which of the two mentioned before would be better, the wells C843 for cali emissions or the c831? Also I'm not understanding much why the cali version would pass more current... Can anyone enlighten me? I thought a high voltage from lowish primary to high secondary resistances would cause a strong spark... But it seems to me that 3000 secondary resistance is kind of low? I'm not getting something but if you guys could clarify for me I'd greatly appreciate it!

-Frank

[modok]

Based on just looking at the specs I would want to try the C899

c831 should be more or less equivalent to petronix or accel universal coil, and should work too.

Yeah I don"t know what's so good about the high current coil either, It might be good for running e-85 in winter?

[GoMopar440]

[Lingwendil]

[GoMopar440]

I believe we're both on a few of the same gun forums as I've seen your user name in a few different places. I use the same user name as I do here on pretty much all forums if possible for continuity, and since I have a bad case of CRS (Can't Remember $#!t). Shoot me a PM if you want to talk shop about current and past boom stick projects.
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Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493

[Lingwendil]

[GoMopar440]

LOL, nice! I just got my brother talked into building a stamped Yugo M72. I'm going to be building another M72 as well, but I want to go with a milled kit this time. It'll make a good match for my Yugo M76 (8mm).
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Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493

[Frank Bassman]

So, I replaced my blue coil with one I had in my stash. Generic auto zone coil.

Turns out the auto zone coil was better than both blues I had.

Bosch Blue 1: 5 ohm primary 8.2k secondary

Bosch Blue 2: 5.5 ohm primary, 8.0k secondary.

Generic Autozone for which I have to look up the part number:

2.8 primary and 10.5k secondary. This coil is black and oil filled.

Put it on the car to mitigate an occasional miss with the blue coil. Not only is the spark very noticeably bigger and stronger (louder too) than the blue, the car accelerates stronger and smoother as well. I am shocked that this coil is behaving better than the bosch, though I had read about Bosch losing their touch lately.


Figured I would share. I am still probably going to buy a coil, undecided yet as to which one, I'm researching some more still. May open up the spark gap to 0.035 when I do this and see how it runs.

-Frank

[modok]

SWEET! The best things in life cost nothing.

I think your multi-meter is off a little, reading an ohm high.
What does it read in ohms just touching the probes together?

Mine reads 0.2, but it's a fairly good unit, my brother stole it from the high school science lab. best things in life!

[Frank Bassman]

You are completely right. Damn tester measures 1 ohm over.

Still, the margin of difference from coil to coil remains.... Since I used the same tester.

2 ohms primary and 9.5 secondary for the autozone coil... Not bad. The bosch is slightly anemic by comparison with 4 and 4.5 primary and 7k secondary! (If those are the real values)

Sometimes you just get lucky I guess!

-Frank

[miniman82]

The real way to test any inductor is to run a small AC voltage through the primary and measure the secondary volts, then use ohm's law to calculate the rest. Since you put a voltage into the primary you can also measure current at the same time, aiding your calculations. By doing this it's possible to tell not only the turns ratio, but the exact resistance of each winding. Much more accurate than a simple ohmmeter.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[Lingwendil]

Breaking news in the world of TFI and points replacement modules!

Just finished up a 16 hour graveyard shift in San Francisco. Trek the 52 miles home. Six miles from home I experience a complete loss of power (and from the feel of it it's an all too familiar apparent loss of spark) and coast off to the side of the freeway. Check that I have everything still connected, and crank. No spark. Bypass my TFI module (don't you love quick connect terminals?) And no spark. Dig the bosch points and condenser out of the trunk, yank out the Hot-Spark™ points replacement module. Bolt the points in, eyeball the gap, hook back up the TFI. Turn the 009 to about 14° static timing (that's where it sits with this known good set of points and this exact dizzy to put me at 30° total advance) and hop in. Started right back up.

This hot spark set only had maybe 200 miles on it since new, and only about half of that was directly to the coil before I installed the TFI. Third set that has failed on this particular car alone! The first set was an actual pertronix 2. This settles it for me. I have always hated these things and have given them plenty of chances... From now on its hall effect, points, or VR.

I'll toss a resistor on here and leave the condenser intact for now, next time I'm at the VW place I'm going to grab another condenser to chop off just to use the leads into the dizzy and I'll run it straight out of the points into the TFI, unless there is some merit to leaving the condenser and resistor set up in there, this whole self cleaning arrangement is a bit interesting to me...


But for now, bed. I've been up for 28 hours.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Frank Bassman]

I just run an extra cable into the diztributor with a male connector. If I need to static time I switch to the condenser circuit. I would suppose it is easier to add the resistor though.

Yea this TFI setup is pretty neat as far as longevity/cost goes... Better than many of the electronic ignitions made specifically for us anyway.

About testing the coil more accurately... I'll have to find some time to mess with it.

-Frank

[Frank Bassman]

So, an update.

After talking so highly of the autozone coil, it started misfiring when it got hot.
Kind of nerve wrecking. Almosf felt like a loose rod , but it was uneven and not metallic. A misfire.

Changed back to a 4 year old blue coil... No more miss, but weaker spark, albeit more blue.

Hunt for a better coil continues.

-Frank

[vamram]

Frank - I put this on my Super last year -

http://www.hot-spark.com/1-Beru-ZS-172.htm

It's what was on when I went on the road trip to Miami a year ago, never had a problem and still going strong. Price is good too.

Victor
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