Should I buy this bus?!? '74 Campmobile

[rugblaster]

I am new to the forum, but not that new to VW's. I worked in a VW dealership from the 70's thru the late 80's.....I was their unit room guy (motors and gearboxes) as well as a general line tech. VWoA trained by West German instructors, ASE Master certified, the whole nine yards. I changed career paths after my VeeDub days and am recently retired and have some projects of my own. I followed the posts from start to finish and I admire your determination. Most would have given up by now.

These buses were new when I worked at the dealership. I may have done the make ready on that machine. HA! Power plant wise, I worked on probably 10 times as many Type 1's as Type 2's and 4's....that, I think was because they were much better engines. VW fixed all the crap that was wrong with the bug motors. Oil filter, bigger oil cooler, bigger oil pump, 9mm sodium filled exhaust valves, tapered head studs and on and on.

Those cylinders you have have a very shallow spigot sticking out as compared to a bug cylinder. I would not leave the cylinder head gaskets out, but rather I would definitely use them. As I think you found out the cylinder head will bottom on the fin area of the head. The shims and cylinder head gaskets were put there for a reason. I worked on a number of these, and I can say with the utmost confidence, I never had a problem with the design as it was. VW addressed some of this on later model dual port bug heads with the "step" cast into them and for all intents and purposes accomplishes the same thing. VW did a lot of things toward the end of the Type 1's to try to make them live in hotter climates. I would measure your deck height with the cylinder base shim installed, cc the head, add for the head gasket and see what your compression ratio is and use shims to adjust it no more than 7 to 1. You can do that with more cylinder base shims. Probably get some kick back on that, but what can I say?

While I was thinking of other peculiarities, I would look at the throttle shafts and make sure there is no play there. I have a tool kit, Hazet I think, that drills and reams the carb bodies for bushings. If the throttle shafts are loose, it is impossible to tune the carbs. With that many miles on 'er, I'll bet a Shiner beer they are "floppy."

I would ditch the A/C.....I hate those. There were no "Factory A/C's"....they were all put in at the dealership....I know, I put them in and hated every minute of it. That running the belt behind the fan housing and cutting up the engine sheet metal $hit should tell you everything you need to know about that. Where I live they were known as, "the kiss of death" made the engines run smoking hot and that is the last thing you need.

Good luck with your bus, I'll be watching.......now, go fix this puppy.

[SamboSamba22]

The "lip" is on the cylinder liner themselves, a by product of the casting. I checked the original liners I removed from the motor, and they as well have the beveled lip from the casting.
What is happening is that instead of the cylinder liner seating all of the way in the cylinder head, the liner fits nicely into the 1.8 cut, but the beveled lip is causing the "flush fit" to not take place, causing what would be a compression leak from the get go.
The guy is planning of fly-cutting the heads, to accommodating for the lip on the liners. I am being reassured that fly-cutting will not affect compression or the structural integrity of the heads.
I have always heard the rumor of bad experience with the use of head gaskets at shows around here, not that I have any personally experience with such accounts.
I just want to have the job completed, done correctly, and a have a worry free time driving the bus. Im ready to enjoy the smiles per gallon, stories made on awesome camping trips, and a bond to be made with my Westy on the road. I am in unknown lands in regards to the necessary or correct means of machine work on the heads, and with limited help in my area, I just want to make sure I'm not making rookie mistakes or doing anything that will cause premature failure in the near future.
Thank you all for the help, encouragement, and direction of solving my problems! Thank goodness for you all this is only my counsel for VW woes!!
Sam

[rugblaster]

I think I understand what the machine shop is doing. He will increase the diameter of the flycut just to the depth of the obstruction, not all the way to the cylinder/head contact area. At least I hope that is what he is doing. A photo would be good.

I wouldn't have though that would have been a problem unless the heads have been flycut to deep and/or the head gaskets are not being placed between the cylinders and the heads. Back in the early hot rodding days on bug engines, they would cut that whole first fin off the cylinder heads for clearance. As a common sense matter, putting the head gaskets in would have to add space between the head and the cylinder. As I said, in all my years at a VW dealership building these engines on a daily basis I have never had a problem with the way the engines were originally built. Things change however and the gasket sets you can get today maybe total junk. I was using factory parts...If you choose to eliminate the head gaskets I would shim the cylinder bases to get the compression ratio in line...I can tell you, if you have a .050 deck height on the piston, your gonna need about a 65cc head including the head gasket if you use one...Two things I would do for sure is check the compression ratio and make sure the total advance is in the 28 to 30 degree range. I have seen people using ground down CD discs and tractor supply animal syringes (a ml is the same as a cc) for tools to do this with. (the CR part) its not impossible and doesn't cost a lot of money. Not doing so will.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[DONGKG]

Wow, your Westy is awesome. And the price you got it, it was a bargain! You've go there a jewel, buddy! What are your plans for your Westy? Will it be preserved as it is? Or will she be undergoing full restoration soon?

Thanks,

Dong
_________________
'67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20

[SamboSamba22]

Man I plan on completing the original motor, and using it for business promotion and camping. Still torn on whether or not to reinstall the a/c or not. Bummed I could never get the OG deluxe fridge working, I replaced it with a 70's Coleman upright cooler. Still holding onto original fridge, complete curtains, bug screens, seats, and a few other old pieces. I have some other projects going on (vintage Japanese bikes) that could free up some money to really restore it, but I happen to really like the old worn and time-tested paint. I need to address the nose, hammer out the dent and sand it down and repaint it, but other than that for now, I want to become good friends with the bus and go on adventures. In a way, my bus found me. I came across it in the local paper. The first night my parents met, they partied on throughout the night in a bay window bus. My grandparents owned this exact model and color as this one. It's crazy, I have so much personal value to a box on wheels I haven't even driven yet, and yet everyday I walk by and smile, I simply look at it and just see optimism. Sure, its a 4 speed maxed out at like 60 mph, rusty in a couple spots and faded here and there, but it says "hey man, life is good. Don't fret on things that have happened beforehand, nor fear for the future, it's a beautiful ride, life is, and you should do so with me. In the driver seat".

[SamboSamba22]

AS mentioned beforehand, and without criticism of vendors, suppliers, and simply for the completion of my project, I am after finding a good replacement floor pan (complete pan) for my LHD Westy. I have emailed Gerson a couple of times but apparently he is no longer making replacement pans for the bays. Even though the floor rot is common, I assume it isn't common enough to invest in inventory, materials, time, resources, etc...
Anyone know of any vendors that supply quality replacement pans??
I've decided to do it correctly and completely replace the rotted pan to a OEM style replacement.
Thanks,
Sam

P.S. I'm calling around myself to see what's out there and seeing my options, cost wise and quality wise.

[wcfvw69]

[SamboSamba22]

While I have the search being conducted for the correct, quality panel for my floor woes, along with my cylinder head situation, I am looking into the necessities for safe braking.
What are the must for on the brakes to be sure of safe driving? As on now, the hard lines and rubbers are holding good pressure with no leaks (almost 6 months now I've bled and filled reservoir) with good brake pressure. Parking brake works as well. I am sure I'll buy a new spring kit for the rear drums, along new pads for the back, but as for the front discs, pads sufficient? Do I need to look into maybe replacing rotors and calipers? I guess a good time to diagnosis the brakes will be when I removed the wheels to be blasted and have new tread thrown on (looking at the new RA18 Hankooks). Experienced Bay Savers, help me, I need to make sure I can stop when I setting world speed records with the pop top open!
Sam

[busdaddy]

If nothing is leaking there's little that needs replacement aside from the flexible hoses just due to calendar time if you aren't sure of thier age. I'd dismantle all the brake units and clean/free up all the moving bits and lube them and likely dismantle and clean all the cylinders and calipers too. I'd install new friction material on all 4 brakes as well just so I knew everything was new and solid.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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[rugblaster]

I can't remember if you changed out the rubber brake lines, but if you haven't, I would. The brake hoses will close up internally over time. If the rotors would turn on a lathe, I'd do that. Pack the front wheel bearings, replace the seals. If the front calipers aren't leaking, I would just flush the fluid out while bleeding and go with it. Replace the rear wheel cylinders and shoes....maybe machine the drums. Be sure to honk down on that 46mm nut if you take that off. If I recall you can do the rear brakes without taking that off, but it's easier if you do.

At least you have front disc brakes, my '69 has drums.

I'm looking for tires for mine also, there is a sticky devoted to that subject. There isn't a lot of choice out there looks like. I think Hankook discontinued the tires everybody seemed to like. ????
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[SamboSamba22]

Update:
Located a Gerson (KlassicFab) Complete Panel for 73-79 LHD Bay at Concept-1 in Canada. Came across their website link in another forum member’s post. A hit, but I know of all the rave and respect Gerson gets for his quality work, so KlassicFab Inc. it is!!
Update: Looking for vendor of KlassicFab closer to me in the states, shipping was $230 USD on top of the $400 USD. So, still looking if anyone has any leads!
Also in the mix, a vendor in Atlanta carries what he says to be some of the nicest and most accurate replacements on the market, I can’t recall the manufacture but they are from Italy. Anyone know of these panels??

Rug blaster, " I'm looking for tires for mine also, there is a sticky devoted to that subject. There isn't a lot of choice out there looks like. I think Hankook discontinued the tires everybody seemed to like. ????”
I believe Hankook has officially made the RA18 the replacement model tire for the beloved RA08 that everyone was running on there Bays and Vanagons. A friend of mine has a set of BFG’s, but they’re meaty looking and a little pricey. I’m not sure if Ron has begun to carry the Ra18’s at Bus Depot yet, I know you can find them online, Amazon, etc..
I do believe the guys at Bus Depot still have the RA08’s, call and ask Derek, that’s who I always speak with.
Cheers,
Sam

[rugblaster]

Good to know that on the tire front.

I found some Hercules Ironman HSI-S 185R-14C listed on the ole interwebs and unbelievably, in my favorite po-dunkville town I live in, there are no less than four dealers listed for these tires. The tires will hold 1874 lbs. a piece so that looks promising.

I've never even heard of Hercules tire but I'm fixing to call one of these tire shops and see what they have to allow.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[rugblaster]

I called one of the tire dealers here and they said they can get me those Hercules tires out of Houston for $85 a tire.

They are 8 ply tires.

I spoke to Earl, and he said they are damn good tires. (What else would he say?)
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[SamboSamba22]

Rug,
What's the name of the shop your talking with, I'm looking into possibly making a trip to Houston this weekend or next. Perhaps I can pick up a set while I'm down there. Anyone have reviews on the Hercules tires??
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[SamboSamba22]

So I picked up my heads yesterday. Must say I am very happy with the work by Dono Powers, a great guy here in Arkansas. He was taught well by Mike Friedman out of Bullcity Arizona, a machinist guru from what I’ve gathered.
I continued with the project last night until I couldn’t take anymore, seemed as if everything decided to fight me. Wore me out mentally, and feeling under the weather, I plan on getting some better wind under my sails this week and knocking it out.
FWIW, i did use the 1800cc cylinder head gaskets that were included in my rebuild kit. I figured they help with the “lapping” between cylinder and the head.
A couple pics of the new work done on my original VW 1.7 cylinder heads, now a fresh VW 1.8, keeping the 1.7 valves and springs.

_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[rugblaster]

[Wasted youth]

Just so I understand... the work you had done on these heads was limited to fly-cutting to accept the 1800cc cylinders? No other work done?

[SamboSamba22]

Wasted Youth,
Correct. They had to be fly-cut to allow for the 1800cc cylinders as well as the “lip” from the casting off the liners themselves. With the heads reinstalled with the gaskets, they seat nicely on both sides.
On another note, is your horn still working? I came across your thread about horn woes and fixes, I’m hoping mine will be simple, it was working before I had the column loose to drop the dash.
Sam
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[Tcash]

Horn
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7868177#7868177

[Pinetops]