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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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 Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:35 am Post subject: no torsion bars question |
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so most of the time 3x3's are run with torsion eliminators but i was wondering if anyone run 3x3's ( or any other sizes extended arms ) with the stock spring plates but no torsion bars?
obviously youd have to eliminate the factory stops.
i would think they would be stronger than a single heim and the bushings would offer a little more cushioning than a solid heim? |
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Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2241
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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Am planning similar, though going to leave the torsion bars set loosely.
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20386
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:17 am Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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Procedure would be to to replace cover plate and torsion bar with a plate that is a pivot point for a heim joint and a replacement for spring plate that is more closely designed as a radius rod.... Also it is assumed the you are going to use coilover or air bag instead of torsion bar for "spring"......
Something similar to product listed below...
https://www.amazon.com/Spring-Plate-Custom-Torsion-Housing/dp/B075NR1PTS
Might try this search string in Google for other variations of above assembly..."Spring Plate Conversion Plate Kit For Use With Stock Vw Torsion Housing"
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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| right thats the typical procedure... which is why i asked whos done it with stock spring plates and no torsion bars instead |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20386
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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| richardcraineum wrote: |
| right thats the typical procedure... which is why i asked whos done it with stock spring plates and no torsion bars instead |
And what it going to stabilize spring plates to maintain rear alignment...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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I did it switching to coilover shocks from torsion bars. I used spring plates with SACO (yellow)grommets. This was with Suspension Unlimited 3x3 arms. I also used the Chenowth type of spring plate retainer because it stronger then the stock type.
I did it for the strength it provided in my opinion. It works, it may not look as trick as a heim.
The bolt on setup that uses a heim joint is still only supported by the 4 bolts that hold the cover to the torsion housing.
Even with the outer part of the pivot bolt in the heim joint supported to the cover you are still relying on 4 bolts (either 10mm or 3/8") to hold it together.
Now if were to support the outer end of pivot bolt to the actual chassis by adding a bracket that came from the side of the chassis to to bolt it would be a lot stronger. This is what is done for race cars.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| richardcraineum wrote: |
| right thats the typical procedure... which is why i asked whos done it with stock spring plates and no torsion bars instead |
And what it going to stabilize spring plates to maintain rear alignment... |
the spring plates are held in place by inner, outer bushings and the caps. the torsion bars have nothing to do with stabilizing anything . maybe im not understanding what ur saying? |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
I did it switching to coilover shocks from torsion bars. I used spring plates with SACO (yellow)grommets. This was with Suspension Unlimited 3x3 arms. I also used the Chenowth type of spring plate retainer because it stronger then the stock type.
I did it for the strength it provided in my opinion. It works, it may not look as trick as a heim.
The bolt on setup that uses a heim joint is still only supported by the 4 bolts that hold the cover to the torsion housing.
Even with the outer part of the pivot bolt in the heim joint supported to the cover you are still relying on 4 bolts (either 10mm or 3/8") to hold it together.
Now if were to support the outer end of pivot bolt to the actual chassis by adding a bracket that came from the side of the chassis to to bolt it would be a lot stronger. This is what is done for race cars. |
did the rear most bolts limit travel? |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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This what I used. They allow for more travel. You do have to do some cutting and welding to make them work.
https://www.kartek.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MRP-9545.jpg
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:27 am Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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I do not what sort of car the OP has but for a buggy it would be easy to use separate coil springs and shocks. There would be several ways of doing it. Below is a pic of a Fiat 850 suspension. The springs sit inside the triangulated portion of the trailing arm. The shocks are mounted off the back.
You could use junkyard springs or cheap 5" stock car springs from some place like Speedway Motors. You could use stock car weight jacks for ride height adj or simple shims.
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rayjay
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Location: Buford GA
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JWHracing
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Joined: September 17, 2008
Posts: 234
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:07 am Post subject: Re: no torsion bars question |
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Been running double spring plates w/o the torsion bars for over a year with no issues. Some of the torsion eliminators are pretty poorly made and pretty cheap, and I've seen the heims break, or the bolt the heim pivots on bend or break, causing all kind of damage.
Why reinvent the wheel?
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