| Author |
Message |
pittwagen
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
 |
|
After approximately 5000 miles the replacement boots have or are failing. 2 have split, one has a significant crack and looks like it will split shortly. And the forth, well it is the original. Still fine and crack free. There is no play in any of the ball joints and the bus tracks straight on the road. Shocks were replaced at the same time. Front end is tight.
Bus has approximately 119,000 miles on it and will have its 38th birthday at the end of the month.
This is what I used:
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D211%2D498%2D001%2D4
Is there anything out there currently that is of decent quality. I do not want to replace the ball joints to get decent boots as the boots may be not much better from what I have seen. And I do not know if the suggestions that I read in older posts would apply to stock available today.
Comments suggestions? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Yup. Plenty of choices out there both in N. America and Europe. I have seen most of the ads. But are any of them any good. Need that "been there done that" experience. Thanks all the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50361
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Aircooled.net tends to have very good stuff, as does a place like CB Performance. If you buy from CIP then you can expect a lower quality product. The boots I bought from BusBoys a decade plus ago still look very good, don't know who made them though and am not sure BusBoys is still in business. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
I found two different aftermarket boots for off-doad racing. They "might" fit a bus joint. Measure the diameter of your joint where the boot lip is and post it. I have no bus joints in ky posession at the moment.
These boots come in Viton for high temp and chemical proof and they come in Chlorinated Neoprene (chloroprene).....also very chemical proof.
One boot design requires a normal type of expander ring and the other one has a nice groove for a zip tie on the other. I will get some pics in the next day or so and post the vendor. They run about $6 each. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3901
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
Info for some Nakata bus BJ's I have:
-- large end of boot sits in a groove 47 mm diam X 4 mm wide.
-- small end of boot seats on taper of BJ pin. On the upper BJ's (with the adjusting bushing), the seat diameter will be
somewhat larger than on the lowers, but will not exceed 22 mm. I don't think the seat on the lowers can be any smaller than 21 mm.
No reason I can think of that other brands of BJ's will be the same, but I did take a boot off one of my Nakata's to replace
a torn original, and it seemed to fit fine.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| kreemoweet wrote: |
Info for some Nakata bus BJ's I have:
-- large end of boot sits in a groove 47 mm diam X 4 mm wide.
-- small end of boot seats on taper of BJ pin. On the upper BJ's (with the adjusting bushing), the seat diameter will be
somewhat larger than on the lowers, but will not exceed 22 mm. I don't think the seat on the lowers can be any smaller than 21 mm.
No reason I can think of that other brands of BJ's will be the same, but I did take a boot off one of my Nakata's to replace
a torn original, and it seemed to fit fine. |
The boots I am,speaking of are made for and by this company....because they manufacture racing ball joints and tie rod ends.
The on-line ball joint accesories section does not have complete info and the pictures do not do these justice. I just got a new hard copy catalog two weeks ago. When i get in this weekend I will scan and post the pages.
http://howeracing.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=Ball+joint+boots
http://howeracing.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=Viton+Ball+joint+boots
They are superb quality. The zip tie boot fits my 412 perfectly....and those ball joints are huge. The other nin zip tie boot is too large for my joints...making it just about bus size. Superb quality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Well it looks like some good info is coming together. I do have one new spare ball joint made by Flennor. The large end of the boot sits in a groove 48mm in diameter and 4mm wide. The small end sits on the shaft that is 22.1mm in diameter. The boot appears to be of good quality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50361
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
Somebody should be able to make contact with a ball joint manufacture (or remanufacturer) and just buy the boots. I used to have the contact info for a remanufacturer in Puebla, Mex but doubt that I could find it any more, but others might know.
Another thought would be to find boots for the tierods on heavy trucks. Some big rig probably uses a tie rod with a boot about the same size as a Transporter ball joint.
These seem pretty close in size, I am sure there are others.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Polyboots-Polyurethane-...1756782507 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Those are polyurethane. Not good at all for greases, flexibility etc. As they note....those are "gaitors"......or "overboots". They are very similar to the urethane boot covers that energy suspension sells. If its all you have in a pinch.....better than nothing. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
The ones they listed as "poly-boots".....are urethane......some of the worst material for this purpose.
But.....interesting.....on the same page......these list as silicone http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-X-UNIVERSAL-Dust-Boot-Sili...0408.m2460
Silicone can be very good. Just do not use it with black moly type, greases unless you know its formulation. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Well we may have a culprit here. After making sure there was no crud in and around the joint, I did add some moly grease into the boot area when I installed the boots. I have been using this grease for years without issue on a variety of applicstions. Wonder if there was a compatibility issue between the grease and the boots. There was no warning or instructions with the boots as to grease type. Who knows what they were made of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12729
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
Those look interesting. The BuyBoys boots I bought right before they closed shop last about 10k miles before they start ripping. I'm about to replace one this weekend, then I'll be out of boots. (I bought enough to last "a lifetime" said the guy on the phone…) 
My curiosity with the AC.net boots is their lack of pleats. I don't know if this is good or bad, but my current boots always seem to rip at the pleats. Any thoughts?
Off to go get greasy…
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| asiab3 wrote: |
Those look interesting. The BuyBoys boots I bought right before they closed shop last about 10k miles before they start ripping. I'm about to replace one this weekend, then I'll be out of boots. (I bought enough to last "a lifetime" said the guy on the phone…)
My curiosity with the AC.net boots is their lack of pleats. I don't know if this is good or bad, but my current boots always seem to rip at the pleats. Any thoughts?
Off to go get greasy…
Robbie |
What do you mean by "pleats"? While the picture in this add looks suspiciously like a generic "tie-rod" boot picture...the shape is correct for a properly molded boot.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Ball-Joint-Boot-1968-79-VW-Bus-211-405-375A-p/211-405-375a.htm
I have no idea what its made of unless I buy one.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=tie+rod+boot
Most of these...are urethane on this page. They suck because they are nearly 80 duro...to hard to flex, cannot be clamped down and they float.
On the other hand...if they are the right size....when fitted over an existing dust boot...they are great to prevent abrasion to the real boot in off-road.
As you noticed...a big problem with some of the rubber compounds out there...even though they may be good with water, ozone, cold, heat etc....can have problems with certain petroleum products in greases.
Greases are thickened oils. You have to remember that.
EPR and EPDM boots will die a quick death with petroleum greases but should do well with most full synthetic. Vitons can do really well with petroleum distillates but can have some issues in areas of high ozone and moisture....and that IS simply a quality issue (what grade of viton).
Neoprenes are somewhere in between. Good outdoors and in ozone etc. You have to know what kind of neoprene. I use synthetic grease ONLY on neoprene or chloroprene. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50361
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
What do you mean by "pleats"? |
The originalTransporter boots are somewhat like bellows in shape, they could be said to have pleats.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
Ah.....thank you for the pleat explanation!
I have been calling that the TRW style....only because a lot of late TRW suspension parts (mostly tie rod ends) have been coming with accordion or bellows style boots.
I have no exact data......but I have always had issues with bellows style rubbsr parts like the master cylinder boots from ATE etc.....cracking at the pleats.
As one who works in the injection molding world.....its most probably because of a combination of issues. The molds are heated and the thjn edges get the hottest.
Overheating rubber in the molding process can over-vulcanize it. Also.....in thin products,like a boot.....as the rubber is quickly trying to flow full length of the mold during the "shot".....it has a hard time making corners and zig zags in such a narrow space....especially if the mold has hot and cold spots.
I would think a pleated or bellows style boot wod have more issues. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12729
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| I would think a pleated or bellows style boot wod have more issues. |
Excellent, thanks. Yes, Wildthings, that's the accordion "pleat" I meant. 
I'm going to buy a few from a few different sources… Right now I'm off to change the left lower in the 102° sun. 
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
| Ok so which ones should I choose? Again, based on what is "currently available" and what has "actually worked and been trouble free" in the last 5 years and 10,000 miles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeb1978
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2004
Posts: 197
Location: Cornfields of Illinois
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Boots - are there quality replacements? |
|
|
So from the posts above, anyone know what works?
I have a somewhat different problem on a 1968 bus. All four boots are shot from sitting for years. I ended buying the 4 piece set from CIP1 since I had other parts to order... and they do not fit.
The upper part of the boot that is supposed to fit into the groove in the ball joint does not, it's too thick, by roughly 1 mm. So what happens is that it slips over the wider bottom part but will not settle in the groove, so you cannot secure the boot.
The ball joints appear to be original as they are stamped VW. They feel good and are able to be greased and flushed due to a threaded cap in them, so I'd like to keep them and not replace them.
_________________
1969 Westfalia 1600 Single Port |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
