Turning circle, difference Limousine and Variant

[Douvrin504]

Hi, this is my first post on the Samba, I'm very interested in the VW 411 and 412, I have 2 Vw 411 Variant 1970, 1 VW 411 Variant 1971, all with manual transmission. In my user manual for the 1970 model year, Turning circle Limousine: 11.4 meters. Variant 11.8 meters, what is it that makes this difference?? Grateful for answers

[Lars S]

The only thing I can come up with is the tire dimension, 155 on the limo and 165 on the Variant..but the rim dimensions are the same 4 1/2 (?) so I dont know how to explain it...

Anyhow my 74 uset manual thells the same circle for both: 11,4 m.


/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[raygreenwood]

I have owned and driven both. They are identical in turning circle regardless of tire. The wagon/variant lifts its inner rear side a slight bit more on sweeping turns and very tight low speed turns when lightly loaded simply because it has no rear anti-sway bar installed.....but if you can find one with outer links and brackets it takes minutes to bolt up because the threaded holes for the brackets are already installed in both the trailing arms and on the rear crossmember. Ray

[Lars S]

Ray, the anti-sway bar seems a logical explanation. How about the 165 tires not allowing to turn as much as with the 155's (tires touching inside wheel arcs)?
Anyhow, the owners manual only had a difference in turning circle up to '72, thereafter they are presented as being the same for both Variant and Limo.


/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[Douvrin504]

Thanks for the replies. Anti-roll bar has no effect on the turning radius, it must be a difference in turning radius, as VW itself states in its manual (model year 1970 and 1971) perhaps the wheels move more in a limousine?

[raygreenwood]

No...as I noted....the chassis and underpinnings are 100% identical on later models. There is no difference in turning radius.

Also noted....the rear sway bar has no effect on the turning radius....but it does allow the rear inside tire to lift during a turn. While it does not affect the turning radius the car is capable of....it affects the speed and quicknes at which you are able to turn the car because of body roll. This affects how quick and hard you can turn...and that affects the turning radius at speed.

At parking lot speeds.....there is no difference.

The 165 width tire was standard (or maybe optional) equipment in radial tires on virtually every 411/412 in this country after 1971. The rim will take either. 185's were also common. They were what I ran all the way through high school.
I run 205/60-15's on a 15 x 5.5 stock rim and have no rubbing issues or anything close to it.

I had forgotten about the minor front fsuspension differences of very early cars. Later cars had 5 more degrees of static castor because of slightly different ball joints. I think the earlier years also had long tie-rods...have to check the parts book. That would mean shorter arms on the steering knuckles. Ray