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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 581
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Nice to see you got the car.
Listen to Tram, he knows the T3 and can talk you through trouble shooting. if you need a set of hands, post it up on DVG and we'll see if anyone can wander over to help. |
Will do Glenn.....I was gonna post some general pics up but wasn't sure who (if anyone) knew FI. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Hi Jessica:
Pic one- You need the correct connector there to keep the wires from touching when you plug it into the temp sensor. You'll need to test that temp sensor first with a VOM and see what the OHM readings are in it.
Pic three... Does this car have any auxiliary equipment like a gas heater? |
Are you talking about a new connector on the temp sensor end or on the wire end? If it's the sensor end, I could get a new one. But on the wire end, I'm not having any luck finding a part. Any idea where to look?
Also (so many questions!) am I going to be testing the two connectors (red on one black on the other) on the sensor with my VOM or am I going to take it out and do something else? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Hi Jessica:
Pic one- You need the correct connector there to keep the wires from touching when you plug it into the temp sensor. You'll need to test that temp sensor first with a VOM and see what the OHM readings are in it.
Pic three... Does this car have any auxiliary equipment like a gas heater? |
Are you talking about a new connector on the temp sensor end or on the wire end? If it's the sensor end, I could get a new one. But on the wire end, I'm not having any luck finding a part. Any idea where to look?
Also (so many questions!) am I going to be testing the two connectors (red on one black on the other) on the sensor with my VOM or am I going to take it out and do something else? |
I can get you a temp sensor plug off a donor harness.
Yes, test the sensor resistance between the two terminals with your VOM probes as it sits.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Hi Jessica:
Pic one- You need the correct connector there to keep the wires from touching when you plug it into the temp sensor. You'll need to test that temp sensor first with a VOM and see what the OHM readings are in it.
Pic three... Does this car have any auxiliary equipment like a gas heater? |
Are you talking about a new connector on the temp sensor end or on the wire end? If it's the sensor end, I could get a new one. But on the wire end, I'm not having any luck finding a part. Any idea where to look?
Also (so many questions!) am I going to be testing the two connectors (red on one black on the other) on the sensor with my VOM or am I going to take it out and do something else? |
I can get you a temp sensor plug off a donor harness.
Yes, test the sensor resistance between the two terminals with your VOM probes as it sits. |
Excellent....if/when you find a plug just let me know and I'll send you my address and whatever compensation you require.
I'll be able to test the sensor in a few days....we live an hour away from where we're keeping the car.
I'm also about to buy a new battery ground strap but I'm a little confused. The ones I'm seeing for sale for 67-73 Type III's are 14" long but the one we currently have is about 5" long and mounts to the railing above the kick panels. I don't see one for sale that's that short. Just get the 14"? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Hi Jessica:
Pic one- You need the correct connector there to keep the wires from touching when you plug it into the temp sensor. You'll need to test that temp sensor first with a VOM and see what the OHM readings are in it.
Pic three... Does this car have any auxiliary equipment like a gas heater? |
Are you talking about a new connector on the temp sensor end or on the wire end? If it's the sensor end, I could get a new one. But on the wire end, I'm not having any luck finding a part. Any idea where to look?
Also (so many questions!) am I going to be testing the two connectors (red on one black on the other) on the sensor with my VOM or am I going to take it out and do something else? |
I can get you a temp sensor plug off a donor harness.
Yes, test the sensor resistance between the two terminals with your VOM probes as it sits. |
Excellent....if/when you find a plug just let me know and I'll send you my address and whatever compensation you require.
I'll be able to test the sensor in a few days....we live an hour away from where we're keeping the car.
I'm also about to buy a new battery ground strap but I'm a little confused. The ones I'm seeing for sale for 67-73 Type III's are 14" long but the one we currently have is about 5" long and mounts to the railing above the kick panels. I don't see one for sale that's that short. Just get the 14"? |
Got it- Lets wait till you've tested the temp sensor, though. I have those if you need one. May as well replace the injector ones that are hacked as well.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9657
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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All those relays- I'll start off with an easy one- One of the two at the upper right of the photo will be for the rear window defroster. That feature was first installed with the '69 model year. The relay would be a typical 4-prong "work" relay, with terminals labeled 85, 86, 87 and 30. 87 is the wire going to the defroster, 30 is the vehicle power feeding the relay for the defroster, and 85+86 are the low-voltage circuits which go to the small activating switch under the dashboard.
This wiring nomenclature is universal among German cars (it's actually a German industry standard), and apply to many electrical parts such as fog lamps, horn, etc. Meaning that you can take this "work" relay if you find a similar one at a swap meet, and use it for such other electrical parts that use a large amount of current. By contrast, a low-current part such as a transistor radio or an interior light will usually not need a relay.
Radio Shack sells 30amp-rated plastic relays for about $7 in case you urgently need a replacement. RS' relay is labeled with the same numbers. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Hi Jessica:
Pic one- You need the correct connector there to keep the wires from touching when you plug it into the temp sensor. You'll need to test that temp sensor first with a VOM and see what the OHM readings are in it.
Pic three... Does this car have any auxiliary equipment like a gas heater? |
Are you talking about a new connector on the temp sensor end or on the wire end? If it's the sensor end, I could get a new one. But on the wire end, I'm not having any luck finding a part. Any idea where to look?
Also (so many questions!) am I going to be testing the two connectors (red on one black on the other) on the sensor with my VOM or am I going to take it out and do something else? |
I can get you a temp sensor plug off a donor harness.
Yes, test the sensor resistance between the two terminals with your VOM probes as it sits. |
Excellent....if/when you find a plug just let me know and I'll send you my address and whatever compensation you require.
I'll be able to test the sensor in a few days....we live an hour away from where we're keeping the car.
I'm also about to buy a new battery ground strap but I'm a little confused. The ones I'm seeing for sale for 67-73 Type III's are 14" long but the one we currently have is about 5" long and mounts to the railing above the kick panels. I don't see one for sale that's that short. Just get the 14"? |
Got it- Lets wait till you've tested the temp sensor, though. I have those if you need one. May as well replace the injector ones that are hacked as well. |
Go through everything this weekend, and PM me a shopping list.
A little birdie told me you need a mirror. I have a NICE one including the plastic gasket that seals it to the door.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Those little birdies....they sure get around, huh?
We'll be all over the car tomorrow afternoon (it's frustrating being a "weekend warrior" for the first time) and I'll definitely let you know what we need and take pictures of things that look suspicious. I'll also try to get some better shots of those "extra" relays and their various connections
Oh....and big thanks to Mike Fisher for the idea....we sent a file to Staples and picked this 18" x 24" laminated wiring diagram up the other day to guide us (chapstick tube and wine bottle shadow for perspective's sake)
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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We've done a bunch of stuff today from cleaning battery connections to replacing ground straps, points, rotor, etc.
I have a short video of the point we're at right now. It's only 10 seconds but the almost-catching in it is sometimes as long as 15 seconds.
In other words....it almost fires but only for a half a second at a time.
We have spark at all 4 plugs as painfully tested by my wife. Only one intake tube is warm (#3) after several attempts to start.
We also have a big exhaust leak where the muffler meets the heater box on 3/4 side.
Any ideas about where/what we should look at or do next?
Link
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
We've done a bunch of stuff today from cleaning battery connections to replacing ground straps, points, rotor, etc.
I have a short video of the point we're at right now. It's only 10 seconds but the almost-catching in it is sometimes as long as 15 seconds.
In other words....it almost fires but only for a half a second at a time.
We have spark at all 4 plugs as painfully tested by my wife. Only one intake tube is warm (#3) after several attempts to start.
We also have a big exhaust leak where the muffler meets the heater box on 3/4 side.
Any ideas about where/what we should look at or do next?
Link
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loosen the distributor and turn it counterclockwise a few degrees- about 1/4"- and see if this improves things.
Fuel pressure verified at 28PSI?
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Willo357
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Melbourne
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Willo357 wrote: |
| spray some aerosol starter in it just to see if you can get it going a bit more. I find if you put spray in the manifold and the air filter it last longer. |
No. No starting fluid. Ever.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Distributor loosened and turned a 1/4" CCW and the almost starting lasted a little bit longer.
Fuel pressure is a solid 30psi.
Is that the problem or should we advance the timing a slight bit? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
Distributor loosened and turned a 1/4" CCW and the almost starting lasted a little bit longer.
Fuel pressure is a solid 30psi.
Is that the problem or should we advance the timing a slight bit? |
Advance the timing a slight bit more. Once it's running you can test it with the timing light and see how far off it is.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Distributor loosened and turned a 1/4" CCW and the almost starting lasted a little bit longer.
Fuel pressure is a solid 30psi.
Is that the problem or should we advance the timing a slight bit? |
Advance the timing a slight bit more. Once it's running you can test it with the timing light and see how far off it is. |
Will do....
In the meantime, I tried starting it with the injectors unplugged and it ran almost beautifully for about 8 seconds I guess until all the fuel was burnt off.
Then, with the injectors plugged back in it ran shittily for about 8 seconds while making a hissing sound and then stalled.
?? |
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Willo357
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Willo357 wrote: |
| spray some aerosol starter in it just to see if you can get it going a bit more. I find if you put spray in the manifold and the air filter it last longer. |
No. No starting fluid. Ever. |
it's fine for a cold start ...... never in a hot start but you shouldn't need it for that.....
sounds like your getting too much fuel if it starts without injectors
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Willo357 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Willo357 wrote: |
| spray some aerosol starter in it just to see if you can get it going a bit more. I find if you put spray in the manifold and the air filter it last longer. |
No. No starting fluid. Ever. |
it's fine for a cold start ...... never in a hot start but you shouldn't need it for that.....
sounds like your getting too much fuel if it starts without injectors |
If you'd seen as many connecting rods bent from using this crap as I have, you'd see my point. 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Willo357 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Willo357 wrote: |
| spray some aerosol starter in it just to see if you can get it going a bit more. I find if you put spray in the manifold and the air filter it last longer. |
No. No starting fluid. Ever. |
it's fine for a cold start ...... never in a hot start but you shouldn't need it for that.....
sounds like your getting too much fuel if it starts without injectors |
Yes....the problem we're having is running too rich at start up. We bought it that way but had to do some "remediation" in terms of battery, connectors, ignition, etc. to actually experience the problem as described to us by the PO. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Distributor loosened and turned a 1/4" CCW and the almost starting lasted a little bit longer.
Fuel pressure is a solid 30psi.
Is that the problem or should we advance the timing a slight bit? |
Advance the timing a slight bit more. Once it's running you can test it with the timing light and see how far off it is. |
Will do....
In the meantime, I tried starting it with the injectors unplugged and it ran almost beautifully for about 8 seconds I guess until all the fuel was burnt off.
Then, with the injectors plugged back in it ran shittily for about 8 seconds while making a hissing sound and then stalled.
?? |
Maybe you're just running off cold start, or maybe your injectors stay open.
Do you have a "noid" light? If not, make a pigtail to check across your injector plugs with your trouble light while cranking. The light should pulse rapidly or flicker. If it stays on solid, or doesn't come on at all, stop and report back.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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We ran out of light and open stores on the east coast a few hours ago so the noid light will have to wait until tomorrow.
In the meantime, here are some better pics of the 3 "extra" relays we have under the back seat.
I've searched the gallery and the forum and haven't come up with any explanation yet.
Here are the 2 to the left of the heater bellow
Here's the one on the bellow....Bosch part # is visible and looks like maybe a VW part # on the back?
Here's the guts of that thing and an image of one of the other relays with VW and other #'s on it
Then, we have this extra button on the dash which may have something to do w/ some no longer present equipment. Oddly religious looking imagery on it.
Finally, here's a long tube that runs along the right side of the car, making valve adjustment on 1/2 a little more tight. What is/was it for?
There's got to be some relationship b/w at least a few of these things, no? |
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