| Author |
Message |
rkeller
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Wake Forest, NC
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: Raise the rear or drop the nose |
 |
|
Looking for good reasons to either re index the rear to raise it up, back to stock height or drop the front slightly with an adjustable beam and add shims? Your thoughts / ideas are appreciated. I'll post after pics, after...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jake Reed
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2009
Posts: 296
Location: Camarillo, California
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
If i owned the car I would throw on some drop spindles. But that said is the rear suspension out of spec? A sagging and soft rear suspension can be in a number of situations dangerous. Especially and freeway speeds.
Jake
_________________
1967 Sedan
Airkewld 4" narrowed beam with shock towers
Airkewld custom shocks
CB drop spindles
JerFab 3" drop rear plates
EMPI 5 spokes natural finish
1600 DP slightly warmed up
Cool Cal-bug to cruise.....priceless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
lower the front
_________________
58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maddog209
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2011
Posts: 291
Location: Central Valley, Ca.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
2 1/2" drop spindles would be a very affordable solution.
_________________
Current VW's= 2013 Tiguan, 1968 Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34023
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Do you stil lhave the z-bar overload spring in the rear? If so, I'd be inclined to leave the rear alone. A slight lowering in back like yours, along with the slight negative camber that brings, is good for stabliity and handling.
I'm not a fan of lowering, especially in front where it usually makes oversteering worse, but an adjustable will let you tune it for a balance of handling, ride, and suspension travel. After the (seemingly) cool looks wear off, and you realize a Bug is not an NHRA Funny Car, you may find the better handling of a near-stock setup will make more sense. An adjustable front will let you have your second thoughts and adjust it to your optimum point.
Last edited by KTPhil on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
itizmyne4
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2010
Posts: 134
Location: Lancaster, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 58Dub wrote: |
| lower the front |
definetly 
_________________
My 1st bug a '65SOLD
My brothers '63 RHD Oval
VW's are cars. Cars are not meant to leak oil. So if your VW leaks I think you should fix it. Be like me and have no leaks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The 67 in the pictue looks like typical 67 68 rear sag. My 68 looked just a lil bit lower then that so I raised the rear 2 clicks on the outside splines. It still sags a lil and does handle better. Figger this a 44 yr old woman may sag also.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gt1953 wrote: |
| The 67 in the pictue looks like typical 67 68 rear sag. My 68 looked just a lil bit lower then that so I raised the rear 2 clicks on the outside splines. It still sags a lil and does handle better. Figger this a 44 yr old woman may sag also. |
That is not 67 "sag'. That is how the factory set it up!
They did this from a safety standpoint to try to introduce more understeer into the car.
The VW was always prone to oversteer, where the rear end breaks loose. When that happens your brain says lift off the gas and when you do that, the rear end instantly passes the front end.
A lot of people got hurt, or died as a result.
Remember this was also the time of Ralph Nader and the death of the Corvair.
When a car understeers, the front end breaks loose. When that happens and you lift off the gas, the car usually slows enough to regain front traction and in most cases a crash can be avoided.
So this set up of the rear being soft and lower then the front was a last ditch attempt to get the cars to understeer and to try to keep them from receiving the same fate as the Corvair.
In 69 with the introduction of IRS on all the cars, the evils of the swing axle were no longer an issue.
That car in the photo is sitting exactly the way VW intended it to sit.
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Geee drscope... 
I would have thought you would have had a pre written statement, regarding this issue, you could just copy and paste by now....
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smitty24
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2008
Posts: 2723
Location: Salem, Oregon
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Raise the rear or drop the nose |
|
|
| rkeller wrote: |
Looking for good reasons to either re index the rear to raise it up, back to stock height or drop the front slightly with an adjustable beam and add shims? Your thoughts / ideas are appreciated. I'll post after pics, after...
|
Looks stock to me. For aesthetic purpose (and personal preference), I would put either spindles or a beam up front. Beam allows more adjustability with no added track. 2" should require no spindles. 2-3" drop up front with stock rear looks good and cleans up the appearance a bit...but you may want a set of shims. I read a couple articles from the early 60's based on the design of the beetle suspension= the engineers actually made the nose of a bug high for a reason! A few inches down up front, wont hurt you though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rkeller
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Wake Forest, NC
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks for all the responses. The car has a sway-a-way camber compensator with the Z-bar down bars (rattle rods) disconnected. I was thinking of running both the Z bar shimmed a little and the camber compensator but the bottom brackets for the Z bar was in the way of the urethane pads on the cmbr comp. Would an adjustable beam lowered to less of a nose high position negatively affect the cars handling, i.e. lessen the effective understeer and cause the back end to want to race the front end around in a corner? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34023
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gt1953 wrote: |
| The 67 in the pictue looks like typical 67 68 rear sag. My 68 looked just a lil bit lower then that so I raised the rear 2 clicks on the outside splines. It still sags a lil and does handle better. Figger this a 44 yr old woman may sag also. |
Yeah, but a "lift in front" can do wonders! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cugir
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2007
Posts: 297
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
195/65 rear and 185/60 front on a stock 67
drop spindles up front on stock beam
video on installing drop spindles on BJ beam
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=494088
_________________
remember, it's peanut butter THEN jelly, not the other way around... - Steve Upton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
^ ...pretty darn level..... ^
Granted it doesnt sound like you're going for a slamed front fest, but FYI, the biggest problem with using an adjustable beam, or adding torsion bar adjusters to a Ball Joint beam as your first attempt at leveling, is the possibility of Ball Joint travel binding. Usually this only happens when it is lowered drastically.
Spindles are easier to install, and they keep the Ball Joints in the original centered locations. Most (not all) add 1/2-1 inch track width. You dont have to worry about buying lowered shocks, but you will have to change the inner wheel bearings, seals, and outer tie rods, as the dropped spindles use 68 1/2 and newer parts that are a little beefier.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rkeller
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Wake Forest, NC
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I hear what your saying about the stock height, even though I think the level or even slightly lowered front looks good, I'm going to go stock. Does anyone know what the stock ride height is for a 67? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 Looks good
_________________
58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwsplitvan
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2008
Posts: 479
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: ride height |
|
|
Fit some drop spindles, the stance will look better, and the ride will be just as good.
Nice looking bug 
_________________
SBS #20 UK
RHD 62 Ragtop Beetle Beryl Green
LHD 69 Squareback Peru Green
LHD 63 Splitscreen Highroof Pearl White |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lclmsteve93
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2015
Posts: 5
Location: Houston
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: 67 Dropped with Stock Beam |
|
|
When install with dropped spindles, do you have any rubbing issues and did you raise the rear? I want to achieve the same look. I am not a fan of the slammed look and I am no little guy either. I want to drive not drag.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9776
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Dropped with Stock Beam |
|
|
| lclmsteve93 wrote: |
When install with dropped spindles, do you have any rubbing issues and did you raise the rear? I want to achieve the same look. I am not a fan of the slammed look and I am no little guy either. I want to drive not drag.
|
Simple answer to both questions is no and no. After the drop spindle installation you may want to add caster shims. Mine was a little twitchy in high winds. Once I installed the shims it was much more stable at highway speeds in the wind.
Good luck.
EDIT;
P.S. Just noticed that this was your second post. Welcome to the samba.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
