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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: '53 brake master cylinder question..... |
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Forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question but I've had a search here and couldn't find the answer....is an early master cylinder (the one with the reservoir can right on top) the same size as the master cylinder that has the brake fluid reservoir on the spare tyre shelf?
I need a new one for my '53 but most places only stock later master cylinders, hence my question?
Thanks!
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1972 1302LS Convertible RHD |
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: '53 brake master cylinder question..... |
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| Nessy wrote: |
Forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question but I've had a search here and couldn't find the answer....is an early master cylinder (the one with the reservoir can right on top) the same size as the master cylinder that has the brake fluid reservoir on the spare tyre shelf?
I need a new one for my '53 but most places only stock later master cylinders, hence my question?
Thanks!
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In my experience with my '53 I bored out a correct 19mm MC and installed a stainless steal sleeve. If I remember correctly you have a Sept. 53 Oval. The cut off for the reservoir behind the spare was in mid Oct. Mine was just before that. Go the extra mile and do it right. You will be happier in the long run.
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58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
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milo721
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Huntington Beach Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I purchased one for a pre 68 bus, it fit and worked fine. |
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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When I got my car it had a 19mm bus master cylinder on it but the problem was that the reservoir mounting hole was to far back towards the fire wall. I could not bolt up the unit because the reservoir would hit. The correct MC has the reservoir mounting hole farther forward so there is no longer a clearance issue.
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58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
WTB - Sigla popout glass like in my ad.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1667775 |
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milo721
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Huntington Beach Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn’t have a problem with the reservoir hitting, but the master cylinder didn’t come with the reservoir so I used the one that was on the car and had no problems. Maybe it’s a reservoir problem not a master cylinder problem. |
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies guys but have to admit to being a bit confused now as to what I need......
My car has the aluminium reservoir with a screw-on lid sitting on top of the master cylinder which itself is seized.
I have sourced all new wheel cylinders but cannot justify sending loads of money on an early master cylinder (does this have a bore of 19mm?) just to get period-correct features like a reservoir on top of the master cylinder; having said that I haven't yet come across any suppliers of them?
My priority is to get the car mobile again without unecessary expense....
So, if a 19mm bus master cylinder will fit does this mean that the late '53 onwards (Beetle) master cylinder has a different bore?
My plan had been to fit a later Beetle master cylinder and fit a remote brake fluid reservoir but I suspect that may not be possible if the bores are different.......
Thanks!
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1972 1302LS Convertible RHD |
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| milo721 wrote: |
| I didn’t have a problem with the reservoir hitting, but the master cylinder didn’t come with the reservoir so I used the one that was on the car and had no problems. Maybe it’s a reservoir problem not a master cylinder problem. |
In hindsight I think that you may be right. When I was trying to install the MC that was on the car I had the wrong reservoir.
_________________
58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
WTB - Sigla popout glass like in my ad.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1667775 |
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milo721
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Huntington Beach Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| The reservoir on mine is plastic, might not be original. |
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| milo721 wrote: |
| The reservoir on mine is plastic, might not be original. |
The one that was on my car when I got it was a plastic one. It was up against the firewall and was being forced to one side. I just checked the MC that came on my car alongside a known splitwindow MC and the reservoir mounting areas line up. The MC is 19mm bore also. The orginal aluminum reservoir is offset to eliminate rubbing against the firewall. I also couldn't get the aluminum screen nut unscrewd and had to drill it out. With alittle searching I believe that you could get the parts that you need without it costing an arm and a leg but do what you feel you need to get the car on the road again.
_________________
58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
WTB - Sigla popout glass like in my ad.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1667775 |
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ProjectX
Accessory Nut
Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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The correct 53 master cylinder is a 19MM. I know that some people use bus master cylinders as replacements.
The original would've had an aluminum reservoir with a screen element on the bolt that holds it down. Better yet, here are some pics of a restored original 
The brake switch isn't OG, but it's rebuilt and ready to go.
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Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 56OvalRHD wrote: |
The correct 53 master cylinder is a 19MM. I know that some people use bus master cylinders as replacements.
The original would've had an aluminum reservoir with a screen element on the bolt that holds it down. Better yet, here are some pics of a restored original
The brake switch isn't OG, but it's rebuilt and ready to go. |
Thanks, I've been having a look over on the split forum and it appears to be the same master cylinder as on a Split Beetle and the Porsche 356.
I hadn't fully appreciated that the Split/early Oval master cylinder has a thread inside the hole above which the reservoir sits because the reservoir hold-down nut screws into this thread. The bus master cylinders don't appear to have this?
So, it looks like I'll end up biting the bullet and getting a new ATE master cylinder, if I can find a supplier......
Thanks all............
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69834
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I don't know if it's the same but the Barndoor (pre-55) Bus uses that reservoir and I have heard the repro 356 master cylinders are the same. Not cheap though. |
Thanks, I think I was mistaken when I last posted as it does look as if the Type 2 master cylinder has the thread inside the hole for the reservoir hold-down nut......
Out of interest I dug out my '61 illustrated Parts Manual and the pre-Dec '53 master cylinder has Part Number 211 611 011, which ties in with what you say....
However I'm now a bit confused as to what master cylinder to go for, CIP1 in Ca lists a VW Bus 50-66 mast/cyl at $22 (Part no 211 611 011J) which is a lot different to an OEM ATE one at Euro 167!!!!!!
Another supplier here in the UK lists a Bug 50-53 item at £32.50 but I'm suspecting that this might be similar to the cheaper CIP one.......????
Are the ATE master cylinders sooo much better than the others or is it simply that they are Porsche fitment that drives the price up to the stratosphere??........
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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You sure that is an original one? I have one at home, and I am pretty sure the opening on the bottom of the res is offset, and not centered. I could be wrong. If I'm not, I'll post some pics tonight.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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EverettB
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Good eye John. I didn't notice that but mine is offset also. I know that the pic is of when I rebuilt mine but I did copy what the orginal was.
_________________
58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
WTB - Sigla popout glass like in my ad.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1667775 |
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ProjectX
Accessory Nut
Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Man, you guys drive people nuts.
It was the camera angle
Off to work now 
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Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| 56OvalRHD wrote: |
Man, you guys drive people nuts.
It was the camera angle
Off to work now |
Hey, it all came out good at the end.........
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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scvw
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| 56OvalRHD wrote: |
Man, you guys drive people nuts.
It was the camera angle
Off to work now |
Very tricky camera angle there Eric. I was wondering how you were going to mount that on the car.
_________________
58 Coral Red ragtop(Diana's car)
57 PG/SG standard
63 Ruby Red SC
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
WTB - Sigla popout glass like in my ad.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1667775 |
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ProjectX
Accessory Nut
Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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You guys are funny. You should've pictured me this morning, getting ready thinking I have to buy a 5th reservoir to find a good one without holes in it, pissed off, then walking into the garage and seeing it was the right one.
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Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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