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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
that shouldn't have any effect with the stock exhaust.
the stock DV exhaust is affixed to the motor, it hangs off the back of the motor mount & oil pan.
make sure you have a heat shield between the muffler & the V/serpentine belt. the belts don't appreciate the radiated (infrared) heat and don't last as long.. the good news is the belt is mucho easier to change w/o a heat shield.
the Diesel muffler heat shield blocks alot of access. I use a section of the waffle heat shield from a modern car underbelly, cut with metal shears/snips and affix to the muffler with large diam band clamps. |
Are you sure there would still be sufficient room between the larger serp. belt system and the diesel muffler heat shield? The pulley system is wider than the v-belt the diesel had before. |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15148
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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I have not run a diesel heat shield with a serp system.
I use a modern waffle heat shield clamped around the muffler.
any swap/conversion will require something to be modified.. unless you buy into a full on kit install $$ compared to a DIY ABA.. the Poor man's swap.
_________________
| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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VWinVT
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1541
Location: North East Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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This is very little clearance between the crank pulley and the muffler, less than 1/2 inch. I made a heat shield from some thin steel and attached it to the carrier bars and it extends to the rear apron of the van below the bumper. Some beat will.still up to the belt due to the clearance but I did notice a drop in intake air temps. she I installed the shield...it.is worth the time.
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
I have not run a diesel heat shield with a serp system.
I use a modern waffle heat shield clamped around the muffler.
any swap/conversion will require something to be modified.. unless you buy into a full on kit install $$ compared to a DIY ABA.. the Poor man's swap. |
Of course! However, its better to dive into a project like this with some helpful tips from people like yourself! 
done lots of engine swaps in FWD VW's and aircooled cars, but those were all simple plug and play swaps. This one is a bit more involved so thanks everyone for the info! Plus, since this vehicle is my daily driver, I need to make sure I have everything ready to go for the swap - it can't be down for longer than a few days to a week. |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| VWinVT wrote: |
| This is very little clearance between the crank pulley and the muffler, less than 1/2 inch. I made a heat shield from some thin steel and attached it to the carrier bars and it extends to the rear apron of the van below the bumper. Some beat will.still up to the belt due to the clearance but I did notice a drop in intake air temps. she I installed the shield...it.is worth the time. |
Good to know. i'm assuming you kept your aircooled trans for your swap? if you did, then moving the entire engine assembly to the rear as uncommonvw did with the brackets wouldn't work. The engine being another 2" to the rear would pose a major problem. |
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VWinVT
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1541
Location: North East Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| Stephan Schmidt wrote: |
| VWinVT wrote: |
| This is very little clearance between the crank pulley and the muffler, less than 1/2 inch. I made a heat shield from some thin steel and attached it to the carrier bars and it extends to the rear apron of the van below the bumper. Some beat will.still up to the belt due to the clearance but I did notice a drop in intake air temps. she I installed the shield...it.is worth the time. |
Good to know. i'm assuming you kept your aircooled trans for your swap? if you did, then moving the entire engine assembly to the rear as uncommonvw did with the brackets wouldn't work. The engine being another 2" to the rear would pose a major problem. |
Correct. I used 82 bars and kept my aircooled transmission. There was no need to move the trans or the engine forward or backward..it fits together nicely. There is enough room in Te engine bay for the motor to move rearward the 2 inches. The distance from the crank pulls t the diesel muffler is quite tight as I metioned, but this is a constant as the exhaust is mounted to the engine
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| VWinVT wrote: |
| Stephan Schmidt wrote: |
| VWinVT wrote: |
| This is very little clearance between the crank pulley and the muffler, less than 1/2 inch. I made a heat shield from some thin steel and attached it to the carrier bars and it extends to the rear apron of the van below the bumper. Some beat will.still up to the belt due to the clearance but I did notice a drop in intake air temps. she I installed the shield...it.is worth the time. |
Good to know. i'm assuming you kept your aircooled trans for your swap? if you did, then moving the entire engine assembly to the rear as uncommonvw did with the brackets wouldn't work. The engine being another 2" to the rear would pose a major problem. |
Correct. I used 82 bars and kept my aircooled transmission. There was no need to move the trans or the engine forward or backward..it fits together nicely. There is enough room in Te engine bay for the motor to move rearward the 2 inches. The distance from the crank pulls t the diesel muffler is quite tight as I metioned, but this is a constant as the exhaust is mounted to the engine |
ahh, ok. I thought the diesel exhaust was mounted to the body! |
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Datico
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2017
Posts: 14
Location: Costa Rica
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What engine? |
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| VWinVT wrote: |
| Robw_z wrote: |
This appears to be mounted at 15 degrees? If somebody could come up with a good manifold for a 50 degree mount the ABA would be much more feasible with factory diesel mounts.
-Rob |
Stock ABA fits quite easily under the deck lid using stock diesel carrier bars. Make spacers to drop the trans and bars 1 3/4 up front and 2 1/2 at the rear and it fits perfectly. You will still have minimum 7 1/4 Inches of ground clearance and NO hump in the deck lid.
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Its this a 50 degrees swap? |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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Yes.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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Old thread, but I thought it might be a good place for this question:
I'm looking at possibly buying a 3A audi "bubble block" to swap out my tired ABA bottom end.
I'd always heard that they're a direct swap, but it looks like the bolt holes to the left of the distributor hole are not quite identical. I don't notice any other differences. Does anybody know how I would solve this?
I know this is rich coming from a Syncro owner, but I don't want to make it anymore complicated than it needs to be.
New 3A on the left, ABA on the right.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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The oil filter flange appears to be the same, and you don't need the manual fuel pump port, so that just requires a block-off plate. Other than that you'll need a different crankcase ventilation setup
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22677
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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Definitely the 3A route, I wouldn’t take a chance on the ABA route.
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.ssS! |
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| The oil filter flange appears to be the same, and you don't need the manual fuel pump port, so that just requires a block-off plate. Other than that you'll need a different crankcase ventilation setup |
Thanks! Looks like the Audi 80 crankcase ventilation setup is still available out there. I should hear back from the seller this morning; he was going to do some research for me knowing my plan.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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Kdj
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2017
Posts: 143
Location: Naptown
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Definitely the 3A route, I wouldn’t take a chance on the ABA route. |
What is the difference between the 3A and the ABA for the uneducated? Also the advantage or disadvantage of each? |
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| Kdj wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Definitely the 3A route, I wouldn’t take a chance on the ABA route. |
What is the difference between the 3A and the ABA for the uneducated? Also the advantage or disadvantage of each? |
Borrowed from VW Vortex:
The ABA and 3A both have the 82.5mm bore and 92.8mm stroke giving a displacement of 1984cc. The ABA block is 16mm taller and has longer rods. The rod to stroke ratio of the ABA makes it a slightly smoother running engine.
The 3A was popular in MK1 and MK2 swaps because it's a shorter motor and fits better in those rigs (no need to modify the downpipe from hitting the firewall or something like that?)
In stock form:
ABA 115hp@5400 rpm 135 ft/lbs@3200 Motronic
3A 115hp@5400 rpm 122 ft/lbs@3200 CIS-E
The 3A is built with forged internals. Only the early OBD1 ABA's (like mine) had forged internals.
If I could find a brand-new early ABA bottom end, I would grab it. But this 3A popped up so I thought it might be a good alternative.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10381
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| joetiger wrote: |
| New 3A on the left ...... |
Wow. Amazing. New!
If I recall, you're running a super charged ABA but here's 2 search hits for Frank Grunthaner's Audio 3A block turbo (50º mount) build from the old Vanagon email list archives:
" .... This is planned to be a 2.0 turbo that fits under the engine cover. All components are western European. Built for high reliability. Anticipated power : 160 hp at 5500 rpm and 188 LB-ft at 3000 rpm..... "
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0106C&L=vanagon&P=R26394
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0110A&L=vanagon&P=R10540
Induction etc choices aside, there should be detailed info you could use for your build.
Searching with his email address or full name, you should find more on his audi 3a build:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=vanagon
IIRC, this guy literally is (was?) an actual rocket scientist. Regardless his writing speaks to a focus on detail.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3348
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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Imagine all this without the internet(s) back in 92". ......
.........To go where no man has gone before.....
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2798
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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| joetiger wrote: |
In stock form:
ABA 115hp@5400 rpm 135 ft/lbs@3200 Motronic
3A 115hp@5400 rpm 122 ft/lbs@3200 CIS-E
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I'm struck by the motronic and CIS-E references. What are you running? Digifant? One of those oh-so-fine options (sarcasm, obvs)?
What could you get with Megasquijet or another standalone? Plus the supercharger?
I'd get the 3a, it's brand new right?
Yes, I'm helping you spend time and money.
Says the guy looking at trading in his perfectly fine daily for a GTI mostly because he wants a manual, damnit.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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dkoesyncro
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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I believe the 3A lacks the provision for the crank position sensor? If you’re running the obd1 motronic 5.9”?” Which is what the neuspeed platform was designed on. You’re going to have to make up for this someway. Mega or micro squirt would be easy form of management to overcome this.
Me, I’d hunt out an old mk3 with an automatic trans and swap the block. Take the chance, odds are good. The early stuff had forged internals.
Or….find an early 1.8T like an AEB this will match your engine cradle and most everything you have already wired up. |
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Inline-4 conversion: What VW engine? |
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This is all a rabbit hole I don't want to pursue. I think I'm going to either rebuild what I have or hunt down an OBD1 ABA bottom end somewhere.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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