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Stanagon Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2003 Posts: 4186 Location: Boston, MA
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19673 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Stanagon wrote: |
Michael Fischer1 wrote: |
I was wondering what these where for. I almost threw them away. |
I could use one of those valve covers. I have one original bastard style valve cover for my '61 Mango Standard with original motor (#5297292). The other valve cover is a later style that has been hacked to make it work. It'd be nice to have correct valve covers for both sides. |
check your inbox _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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skyto,
Please measure the depth to the cyl. seat of the chamber on the head you mentioned and pm me or post here. Thanks. |
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rlevans Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2006 Posts: 193
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I need to look through the stuff for the original engine for my
May 59 panel. One thing I do remember is that the breather hole under the generator pedestal is a small round hole instead of the D-shaped one, wasn't that also a trademark of the Bastard 40 horse? |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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VW Vet wrote: |
skyto,
Please measure the depth to the cyl. seat of the chamber on the head you mentioned and pm me or post here. Thanks. |
The seat is 13mm deep. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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skyto,
It looks like your head is yet another facet in the bastard engine development. Does it have the tall rocker shaft supports and the long rocker bolts like the 3rd generation head in this post? Please post some pictures.
Ron |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the rocker supports are identical to 40hp round boss heads with long studs. This is the same head as the 371A except for cylinder openings. Guess this made sense in mass production. I'll post pictures when I get my camera back. |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Here they are:
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the head pictured above, the 87mm openings definately make it for the bastard cylinders only. I would guess it is a post June '61 replacement for use on the post January '60 bastard engines. There is a slight hint in the Bentley Manual about this, but it does not address the disappearance of the unused vent chamber. We can add this to the developing story. Thanks, skyto.
ps: skyto, are you located in Finland? Could you find out if any of the bastard engine fiasco was applicable to Europe? It could be the heads you pictured were never available here in the US.
Ron |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: |
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The bastard incident happened here in Europe too.
I bought these heads as 40hp parts, started polishing the chambers and exhaust ports before trying the cylinders on.. what a nasty surprise! I think these were available in the US, there was a thread about an identical pair (the picture is long gone). |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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is this a further variation of the 3rd generation of bastard head or a modification there of?
as the heads sit they are cut for the 90mm OD normal 40hp barrels but the motor they came off (may 64 beetle case) seems to have lead an interesting life...
the nicely cleaned heads in this thread realy make these look even worse |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Henry Roberts,
The head you pictured looks like a 3rd generation bastard head, converted from long rocker studs to short rocker studs. If you can tell the cylinder openings have been cut from 87mm to 90mm, that would be the real indicator. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Early 40 horse engines also had the small round "breather" hole so it was not a bastard engine specific detail. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Tasb,
What small round breather hole are you refering to? The vented heads ended in January 1960, pre 40 horse.
Edit: If you are refering to the vent hole under the generator stand, I remember reading about the change to the larger hole. When I find the info I will post it. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Here is some bastard engine main bearing info:
Engine # 3 400 000 to 3 491 699 ( True Bastard Crankcase): Thrust at #2 and thin walled (OD 60mm) steel backed main bearings standard equipment.
Engine # 3 491 700 to 3 520 332 (2nd Generation Bastard Crankcase): Thrust at #1 and thin walled (OD 60mm) steel backed main bearings standard equipment.
From engine # 3 520 333 (3rd Generation Bastard Crankcase) and subsequent 40hp: Thrust at #1 and thick walled (OD 65mm) aluminum main bearings standard equipment.
Bearing #4 is OD 50mm on all the above engines. Steel backed or aluminum follows the other main bearings for the application.
The Arctic steel backed bearings did not become optional until they went to the OD 65mm aluminum mains as the standard. Previously, they all had the steel backed bearings.
Steel backed main bearings were less susceptible to spinning in the crankcase when started at extremely cold temperatures. |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17296 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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I found these oddball main bearings at a swap meet last summer. Only recently did I discover them to be Bastard 40hp bearings. Since they are steel backed and 65mm OD, they must be the 3rd Generation Bastard Crankcase bearings VW Vet describes above. All my measurements suggest they will work in all 40hp and 1300, 1500, 1600 engines.
Can anyone explain why they are all split?
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce,
65mm and steel backed means they could have been made after the bastard fiasco. They were optional for arctic locations after they went to thick 65mm aluminum bearings as the standard.
I can't see the steel backing in your photos. Does the 0,75mm on the box refer to oversize?
The Bentley Manual shows split mains (including the #1 thrust) for some non-bastard applications. I will look to see when they were used and when they went to one piece. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was referring to the breather hole under the generator stand... |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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tasb,
Yes, I thought so after I read it a couple of times.
Thanks. I haven't had a chance to research the date of change, yet. |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17296 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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VW Vet wrote: |
I can't see the steel backing in your photos. Does the 0,75mm on the box refer to oversize?
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The weight is a dead give-a-way. All the split shells are steel backed. The small one is Al.
This set is indeed .75mm undersize for the crank. |
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