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crewlvw
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 384
Location: hemet. so. cal
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| yes those clear lens with the egg shape in the pic are for 54-55 american bound imports. billy |
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buggen
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2003
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
All barndoors rolled out of the factory with fluted headlight assemblies, as it wasn't until 4 April 1955 that buses destined for the U.S., Canada or Guam had the '55-'63 style (sealed beam) assemblies installed at the factory. Whether sealed beam units on barndoors were installed at the port or dealer is a subject for discussion.
By early 1953, Porsches (and most likely VWs) destined for states requiring sealed beam headlights received modification kits at the port (Houston is one port where this occurred). The clear lenses used in these kits do not have either a Hella or VW logo and lack the 'vestigial oval' in the center. The only markings are the word "TOP" (instead of "oben"), and the numbers "1-592" and "MADE IN GERMANY" at the bottom. All the assemblies I've seen with these lenses have single-rivet rings with the Hella logo.
Beginning in about mid-to-late 1953, complete sealed-beam assemblies from Hella were probably shipped separately through the VW parts network for installation by the dealer. These units do not have a Hella logo stamped on the bucket; (usually) a VW logo, the Hella part number and a date code (L=1953, M=1954). The first batches had the single-rivet rings and lenses with a small Hella logo at the bottom and the faint "vestigial oval" in the center (note Everett's '54-'55 bus assemblies are date-coded 1953 and are from one of those early batches).
By early 1954, the sealed-beam assemblies were shipped with rings having two (widely-spaced) rivets and no logo. The small Hella logo lenses were replaced by lenses (P/N 25484-2) with a large Hella logo at the top and a VW logo at the bottom (and the "vestigial oval"). All the Hella assemblies produced through the end of 1954 had the coil springs around the adjusting screws.
In the first weeks of 1955, Hella redesigned the adjusting mechanism so tension was maintained by a single, bail-type spring. The Hella logo and both the VW (9-digit) and Hella part numbers are stamped on the buckets. The lens used on these assemblies were carried over from 1954 and used at least through the end of April.
I hope this answers some of the mystery, at least as far as sealed-beams are concerned. |
So I have a little bit of a twist on this. My 47,000 original mile US delivered July 1953 convertible bug has Hella sealed beam headlights, the trim rings have single rivets and Hella stamped in the bottom. The twist is I have clear lenses with the "vestigial oval" in them and “oben” at the top and just VW at the bottom NO Hella in the top of the lenses. Have you ever seen lenses like that? The buckets are date coded L0680 which I am guessing is 53 because of the L but not sure what the 0680 is? |
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Anchovy
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2923
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| buggen wrote: |
So I have a little bit of a twist on this. My 47,000 original mile US delivered July 1953 convertible bug has Hella sealed beam headlights, the trim rings have single rivets and Hella stamped in the bottom. The twist is I have clear lenses with the "vestigial oval" in them and “oben” at the top and just VW at the bottom NO Hella in the top of the lenses. Have you ever seen lenses like that? The buckets are date coded L0680 which I am guessing is 53 because of the L but not sure what the 0680 is? |
I think I understand from your description what the lenses look like, but can you please post some photos of your assemblies and the details you mention. Thanks, |
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buggen
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2003
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some pictures:
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lisagsp
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Headlight ID |
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HI: We are new to the site and LOVE IT!!!
Got a question. I've looked at all the downloaded parts numbers lists and cannot find the corresponding ones for these two headlights which we have. The parts numbers stamped on the assemblies are 211 941 044 & 043. The 044 one has B11 and SB 20, and the 043 one has B9 and SB 21. They also have Hella 3 cp on both. The glass says "oben" on the top end and on the other end SB 19 SB 20 SB 21 and Hella below that, then Made in Germany. The glass on the 043 also has a number 9-60370-3, and the glass on the 044 says 14-60370-3. There are striated lines on the glass going vertically if you hold the egg with "oben" on top. They taper & curve with the curve of the egg. There is a tab at the "bottom" below the Hella logo and the screw holes in this position are at what I would call 1:30 & 7:30 o'clock. I realize they were installed sideways, but it's easier to describe them as on-end ovals. Also, they have the parking lights inside. They are sealed beam, too. Forgot that part.
Can anyone tell me what model these were originally for? Our bus lights have the little circle in the center on the glass, and I know they're not for that. But, my husband likes these and wants to use them. He has a Type II pickup to restore and thinks they may go on that model. We want to keep it all authentic.
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks,
Lisa |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight ID |
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| lisagsp wrote: |
HI: We are new to the site and LOVE IT!!!
Got a question. I've looked at all the downloaded parts numbers lists and cannot find the corresponding ones for these two headlights which we have. The parts numbers stamped on the assemblies are 211 941 044 & 043. The 044 one has B11 and SB 20, and the 043 one has B9 and SB 21. They also have Hella 3 cp on both. The glass says "oben" on the top end and on the other end SB 19 SB 20 SB 21 and Hella below that, then Made in Germany. The glass on the 043 also has a number 9-60370-3, and the glass on the 044 says 14-60370-3. There are striated lines on the glass going vertically if you hold the egg with "oben" on top. They taper & curve with the curve of the egg. There is a tab at the "bottom" below the Hella logo and the screw holes in this position are at what I would call 1:30 & 7:30 o'clock. I realize they were installed sideways, but it's easier to describe them as on-end ovals. Also, they have the parking lights inside. They are sealed beam, too. Forgot that part.
Can anyone tell me what model these were originally for? Our bus lights have the little circle in the center on the glass, and I know they're not for that. But, my husband likes these and wants to use them. He has a Type II pickup to restore and thinks they may go on that model. We want to keep it all authentic.
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks,
Lisa |
The "B9" and "B11" represent the year and week your headlight assemblies were produced (9th and 11th week of 1965, respectively). They are a matched left (043) and right-hand (044) set. These are correct for U.S./Canadian market ~Nov '63-'67 Type 2s, the only difference during this period being screw-on vs. push-on connectors for the parking lights. The glass lenses, as described, are correct for these assemblies.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K. |
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RichOakley
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2004
Posts: 1108
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| Thanks for all the info, very helpful indeed (if not a little depressing!) |
Bad luck there dude.
You're lights are definitely Aug'55 to Jun'60 Euro spec. |
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Anchovy
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2923
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a scan of an original photo that was included in the 1950 VW bus press kit. Check out how the lens is either broken or the assembly is holding water. The lens is the fluted wide sliver version and does not appear to have any markings on it. Other photos show the adjustment screws at the "Hella" position near the mount screw.
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musclebus
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 171
Location: UK, Dorset, BD Heaven and Hell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi, I have a pair of fluted Bosch headlights, please could someone date these for me?
On fluted lense.... in the narrow lined part VW ...by the holder screw part LE1801 NL (circled) squiggle A (circled) 1209
On the bulb holder part... VW LERP 14 L17Z below that... 10Q 012
These have the 2 small rivets by the screw holder...
I was going to use these on my 54' BD (even if they are for a later bus)
Any help much appreciated 
_________________
www.musclebus.co.uk
Check out our last remaining Klassicfab panels in stock |
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Anchovy
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2923
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| musclebus wrote: |
Hi, I have a pair of fluted Bosch headlights, please could someone date these for me?
On fluted lense.... in the narrow lined part VW ...by the holder screw part LE1801 NL (circled) squiggle A (circled) 1209
On the bulb holder part... VW LERP 14 L17Z below that... 10Q 012
These have the 2 small rivets by the screw holder...
I was going to use these on my 54' BD (even if they are for a later bus)
Any help much appreciated |
According to my magic decoder ring (provided by Janerick3) the 10Q makes the buckets from Oct. 1959. |
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musclebus
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 171
Location: UK, Dorset, BD Heaven and Hell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Anchovy wrote: |
| musclebus wrote: |
Hi, I have a pair of fluted Bosch headlights, please could someone date these for me?
On fluted lense.... in the narrow lined part VW ...by the holder screw part LE1801 NL (circled) squiggle A (circled) 1209
On the bulb holder part... VW LERP 14 L17Z below that... 10Q 012
These have the 2 small rivets by the screw holder...
I was going to use these on my 54' BD (even if they are for a later bus)
Any help much appreciated |
According to my magic decoder ring (provided by Janerick3) the 10Q makes the buckets from Oct. 1959. |
Many Thanks
_________________
www.musclebus.co.uk
Check out our last remaining Klassicfab panels in stock |
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buggen
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2003
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Anchovy wrote: |
| buggen wrote: |
So I have a little bit of a twist on this. My 47,000 original mile US delivered July 1953 convertible bug has Hella sealed beam headlights, the trim rings have single rivets and Hella stamped in the bottom. The twist is I have clear lenses with the "vestigial oval" in them and “oben” at the top and just VW at the bottom NO Hella in the top of the lenses. Have you ever seen lenses like that? The buckets are date coded L0680 which I am guessing is 53 because of the L but not sure what the 0680 is? |
I think I understand from your description what the lenses look like, but can you please post some photos of your assemblies and the details you mention. Thanks, |
So no comment after I posted the pictures? Ever see these before? |
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Anchovy
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2923
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| buggen wrote: |
So no comment after I posted the pictures? Ever see these before? |
Looks like US spec. sealed beam lights. |
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buggen
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2003
Posts: 604
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Anchovy wrote: |
| buggen wrote: |
So no comment after I posted the pictures? Ever see these before? |
Looks like US spec. sealed beam lights. |
These are the only ones I have seen with no Hella at the top and VW at the bottom. |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| buggen wrote: |
| Anchovy wrote: |
| buggen wrote: |
So no comment after I posted the pictures? Ever see these before? |
Looks like US spec. sealed beam lights. |
These are the only ones I have seen with no Hella at the top and VW at the bottom. |
If you ever take them apart to replace the rubber gasket around the lens, let us know what numbers are cast into the lip. I'm guessing you'll find "HELLA" and "25484" at the top and "1" at the bottom. All the '54-'55 lenses I've seen with both the VW and Hella logos have a "2" at the bottom.
I haven't been able to decipher those oddball date codes used on (license-built?) Hella buckets without the Hella logo, but I think they are from June, 1953. The last two digits (if any) don't make any sense--perhaps it's the assembler's or inspector's ID.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K. |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
| buggen wrote: |
| Anchovy wrote: |
| buggen wrote: |
So no comment after I posted the pictures? Ever see these before? |
Looks like US spec. sealed beam lights. |
These are the only ones I have seen with no Hella at the top and VW at the bottom. |
If you ever take them apart to replace the rubber gasket around the lens, let us know what numbers are cast into the lip. I'm guessing you'll find "HELLA" and "25484" at the top and "1" at the bottom. All the '54-'55 lenses I've seen with both the VW and Hella logos have a "2" at the bottom.
I haven't been able to decipher those oddball date codes used on (license-built?) Hella buckets without the Hella logo, but I think they are from June, 1953. The last two digits (if any) don't make any sense--perhaps it's the assembler's or inspector's ID. |
One other thing--next time you pull the assemblies off the car, check the sealed-beam bulb socket and let us know whether it is genuine Hella or an aftermarket U.S. part (usually found with cloth pigtails). The fact that your date codes match and are close to the car's production date suggests that your car rolled off the Karmann assembly line with sealed-beam units.
_________________
Thanks,
Jan K. |
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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3929
Location: England
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Panelvan
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Joined: April 04, 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
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There was also headlight manufactured by Marschal for barndoor .
Probably only for the french Bus (Like marschal manufactured headlight for Split Beetle)
[/url]
Pascal |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Very informative thread... 
All my 1950-1953 Bosch catalogs only list the Beetle headlamps and parts....no Bus headlamps at all.
The Hella catalogs list headlamps and parts for Beetle and Buses. |
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Anchovy
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2923
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| farkengruven wrote: |
Very informative thread...
All my 1950-1953 Bosch catalogs only list the Beetle headlamps and parts....no Bus headlamps at all.
The Hella catalogs list headlamps and parts for Beetle and Buses. |
Further confirmation that Barndoor buses may not have come from VW with anything other than Hella assemblies. I have never seen a Bosch assembly on a Barndoor in any VW factory literature or any period photographs. |
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