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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1716
Location: Baltimore
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: oil filter mount |
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My oil filter mount has a steel ball on the underside to the side of where the filter screws in. The steel ball is reccessed in the mount and there is a metal ring that holds it in. I cannot figure out which way this is suppose to go back in(it fell out when I removed the filter). Also is there suppose to be a spring between the steel ball and the metal ring that holds the ball in. Anyone have a pic of an oil filter mount from the underside.
Thanks
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
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SlowLane
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Livermore, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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That ball is part of a pressure relief valve intended to allow oil to bypass the filter if the filter gets too clogged with crud. It isn't supposed to come out. Yes, there is supposed to be a spring behind it. Without the spring the valve will bypass the filter all the time.
Do not consider running your engine without getting this thing fixed!
You may very well be looking at sourcing another oil filter mount. Perhaps one of the Samba members can help with that. Otherwise, your next best option is to either find that spring or block off the hole completely, then be extremely anal about changing your filter regularly.
_________________
Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1716
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Anyone got one by any chance. Even just the spring and ball?
Thanks
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7095
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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the ball is swaged into the filter stand. if it comes out you need a new mount. i have good used if you need one.
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whip618
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 761
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I've got a couple extras, when do you need it.
Phil
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USSVI.......Pride Runs Deep
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1716
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: |
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asap. What are you guys asking for them. I have lots of parts to if you need anything and wat to trade.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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whip618
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 761
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Whatever shipping costs are. If you want one PM your address and I'll have it in the mail in the morning.
Phil
_________________
Life is simple....either you're qualified or you're not.
USSVI.......Pride Runs Deep
USSVI Life member and Holland Club member
Samba Member No. 3307 |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1716
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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whip I pm'd you.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Is that ball not just a check valve for flow direction? When the engine is off it prevents oil from flowing back into the filter. I do not believe the mount has anything to do with pressure regulation. |
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SlowLane
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Livermore, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Is that ball not just a check valve for flow direction? |
Have another look at it. The valve is installed in a passage from the inlet side of the filter to the outlet side. It's in parallel to the filter, not in series, if you'll forgive an electrical analogy. The valve will open when pressure differential across the filter reaches a certain level. It has nothing to do with pressure in the rest of the system.
I haven't measured it myself, but it can be opened with light finger pressure. I believe that when considering the addition of an external oil cooler that taps off of the oil filter mount, one should be careful to ensure that the pressure drop across the additional cooling system doesn't exceed the opening pressure of this valve. Otherwise, not only are you turning your expensive "full-flow" cooling system into a bypass system, you may be bypassing the oil filter as well. 
_________________
Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett
Last edited by SlowLane on Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SlowLane wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Is that ball not just a check valve for flow direction? |
Have another look at it. The valve is installed in a passage from the inlet side of the filter to the outlet side. It's in parallel to the filter, not in series, if you'll forgive an elecirical analogy. The valve will open when pressure differential across the filter reaches a certain level. It has nothing to do with pressure in the rest of the system.
I haven't measured it myself, but it can be opened with light finger pressure. I believe that when considering the addition of an external oil cooler that taps off of the oil filter mount, one should be careful to ensure that the pressure drop across the additional cooling system doesn't exceed the opening pressure of this valve. Otherwise, not only are you turning your expensive "full-flow" cooling system into a bypass system, you may be bypassing the oil filter as well. |
The check valve is on the outlet side of the filter, the inlet is isolated from the outlet to prevent particles from entering the oil system. The check valve opens under very slight pressure and has nothing to do with pressure relief at the filter, which is taken care of by the oil pressure relief valve. |
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SlowLane
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Livermore, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| The check valve is on the outlet side of the filter, the inlet is isolated from the outlet to prevent particles from entering the oil system. The check valve opens under very slight pressure and has nothing to do with pressure relief at the filter, which is taken care of by the oil pressure relief valve. |
Please reference this drawing:
Note the sprung ball check valve at the right edge of the drawing, next to the filter. Ask yourself "under what conditions will the valve open?" When the pressure across the filter exceeds the opening pressure of the valve, right?
_________________
Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Right you are. |
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SlowLane
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Livermore, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I knew we were agreeing at some level. 
Where did you get that drawing, BTW? It's beautiful.
Oh, I see. Same place I found the first one.  Thanks for the Web page, tuna!
_________________
Present:
'81 Westfalia: 2L, manual. Originally Canadian, now Californiated
Back in the day:
'72 Super Beetle
'69 Camper Van - Corvair powered
'71 Window Van - Transferred Corvair from '69
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - Internet RFC 1925
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." - Sir Terry Pratchett |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Is that ball not just a check valve for flow direction? When the engine is off it prevents oil from flowing back into the filter. |
The filter itself is responsible for anti-drainback. Some filters are more successful than others with this task. I have found that the good ol' Wix (NAPA) filter does a good job.
Colin
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1716
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Phil I dont need the mount anymore check Pm.
_________________
66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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