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bryhart Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 39
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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New to bugs and looking for some help on seat belt install.
I just purchased a 65 with all new interior and the previous owner chose to not install seat belts. I want to install 3 point retractable in the front and possibly lap belts in the back. I have researched and reviewed several threads and I am still confused about my options and the mounting points.
I am attaching a picture of the interior during the restoration. Can someone who knows try and explain:
1. Where the mounting points are?
2. What parts/options are available?
3. What special installation instructions are available?
[/img]
Any help is much appreciated. |
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56Cabrio Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 1899 Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
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bryhart Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 39
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Thanks. That is a great how to as far as welding in the mounting points. On my 65 I believe I can see the following mounting points in my picture:
Upper B-Pillar
Floor mounts in the pan for front
Tunnel mounts for front
Inside rear mounts
What I am less sure about is (can anyone tell me if they see these in the picture?):
Outside rear mounts
Lower B-Pillar mounts
*edit - I also am not sure if there any retractable options and if so, where they would mount and how they would attach and operate. |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5311 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:14 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Duplicate post
Last edited by Sharp64 on Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5311 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:17 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Outside rear mounts utilize the seat mounting bolts for the seatback. I do not believe 65 had a lower B pillar mount. Fronts used the tunnel, outer pan and B pillar mounts. Thus the "3" in 3 point. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11057 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654120
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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i installed 1974 Bug seat belts in my 1965 bug some time ago, direct bolt in. besure to get the buckle bracket that mounts on the tunnel, it is part of the system.
good luck, stay safe. _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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bryhart Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 39
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
i installed 1974 Bug seat belts in my 1965 bug some time ago, direct bolt in. besure to get the buckle bracket that mounts on the tunnel, it is part of the system.
good luck, stay safe. |
Excellent. Where did you purchase? Did you only have to use the Upper B-Pillar, Floor pan, and tunnel mounts? Do you have any pictures of the final install? |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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bryhart wrote: |
bluebus86 wrote: |
i installed 1974 Bug seat belts in my 1965 bug some time ago, direct bolt in. besure to get the buckle bracket that mounts on the tunnel, it is part of the system.
good luck, stay safe. |
Excellent. Where did you purchase? Did you only have to use the Upper B-Pillar, Floor pan, and tunnel mounts? Do you have any pictures of the final install? |
it was nearly three decades ago, got the belts out of a parted out bug. sorry no photos right now. mounted same as stock late model bugs.
here is a link to the want ads, I did a seat belt search in the 68 and newer bug section.
LINK.... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...=seat+belt
the first ad appears to have the complete set up minus the mouning bolts, but the belt webbing appears to be torn in one of the photos, there are however plenty of more ads to search youll need to determine condition before purchase. _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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bryhart Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 39
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
it was nearly three decades ago, got the belts out of a parted out bug. sorry no photos right now. mounted same as stock late model bugs.
here is a link to the want ads, I did a seat belt search in the 68 and newer bug section.
LINK.... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...=seat+belt
the first ad appears to have the complete set up minus the mouning bolts, but the belt webbing appears to be torn in one of the photos, there are however plenty of more ads to search youll need to determine condition before purchase. |
Thank you. |
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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For the rear, outer belt mounts, be safe and use the body-to-chassis mounts indicated by the picture below (green arrow, lowest to the left in the picture).
Using this location, you have a large chassis bolt that is threaded directly into part of the chassis and makes a very suitable anchor point.
Using the rear seat back mounting bolt isn't as secure. The bolt is threaded into unanchored sheet metal.
_________________ Plate of shrimp |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5311 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:00 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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panicman wrote: |
For the rear, outer belt mounts, be safe and use the body-to-chassis mounts indicated by the picture below (green arrow, lowest to the left in the picture).
Using this location, you have a large chassis bolt that is threaded directly into part of the chassis and makes a very suitable anchor point.
Using the rear seat back mounting bolt isn't as secure. The bolt is threaded into unanchored sheet metal.
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I had to run out to my car, pull the back seat up and look around. You know, I saw those bolts and didn't even bat an eye as I truly assumed you were supposed to use the seat bracket bolt..... My question is going to be why didn't they treat that outer hole the same as the inner or the one behind the window with a larger hole and a plug?
Edit* I just went out and started to swap mine around to see how it worked there. Answered my question in regards to why it not like the other as its bolted into the chassis as mentioned. However, when using this bolt as the outer seat belt mount, how are you supposed to orient the metal part of the seat belt? I don't seen any way that makes sense. Since its lower than the inner, it puts it under the seat essentially. If you have it so the seat belt comes out the side between the seat belt and the door panel a large portion is going to sit under the seat. Also, the positioning makes this location awkward if you try to run the seat belt from this location in from the back as again, a large portion will be under the seat. Put tension on it and its going to pull the seat up.... Anyone got pics of seat belts actually attached here? |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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ps if i were to convert to three point, id consider the want ads and search for a vw vendor that might sell repro seat belts just ask for one to fit the 68 up bug. you might need to source the tunnel bracket and such used.
the other option I had in an old 67 Bug was I had some generic seat belts in it, much nicer than the stock. these may have been from a 80s toyota or si ular compact car. good reel mechanism mounted on out side floor, loop type hoop that belt moves thru up top on piller, and the lap belt end mounted to stock tunnel belt mount holes, belt was maybe foot or so long from tunnel bolt to buckle.
so aftermarket can work too.
early stock belts I do not believe self retracked, you had to size them both lap and shoulder for each sized rider, very snug and secure, little ability to move as it is not on a retract. later ones had a retract mechanism. so be aware of that, and if you do want the retract mechanism tyty, co sider old used ones may not operate well, may need rebuild , lube, or just be worn out. a new non stock type if available may be most practical, new reel, new webbing, etc and it bolts in pretty easy. if you want period correct stock, consider the differances thru the model years in the three point mechanisms and styles, they were not all the same.
also you want clean pretty metal on that tunnel bracket it is pretty visable, make sure ylu dont end up with an ugly rusty one that was from a junk pile unless you want to sand and paint it. same goes for used old buckeles is the chrome shinny or pitted with rust? if the plastic fadded, cracked, gouged, if the release knob nice and bright colored, or fadded to pink, and turned gooeey, ks the webbing clean and soft, of stiff, dirty, sun damaged?
stay safe, three point belts are a great safety upgrade! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Scott65Beetle Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 236 Location: Indpls
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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BTW a good bang for your buck regarding 3 point belts is to purchase Humvee seatbelts on Ebay. i have purchased two sets for cars and they are very nice for the price. |
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Sharp64 wrote: |
panicman wrote: |
For the rear, outer belt mounts, be safe and use the body-to-chassis mounts indicated by the picture below (green arrow, lowest to the left in the picture).
Using this location, you have a large chassis bolt that is threaded directly into part of the chassis and makes a very suitable anchor point.
Using the rear seat back mounting bolt isn't as secure. The bolt is threaded into unanchored sheet metal.
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I had to run out to my car, pull the back seat up and look around. You know, I saw those bolts and didn't even bat an eye as I truly assumed you were supposed to use the seat bracket bolt..... My question is going to be why didn't they treat that outer hole the same as the inner or the one behind the window with a larger hole and a plug?
Edit* I just went out and started to swap mine around to see how it worked there. Answered my question in regards to why it not like the other as its bolted into the chassis as mentioned. However, when using this bolt as the outer seat belt mount, how are you supposed to orient the metal part of the seat belt? I don't seen any way that makes sense. Since its lower than the inner, it puts it under the seat essentially. If you have it so the seat belt comes out the side between the seat belt and the door panel a large portion is going to sit under the seat. Also, the positioning makes this location awkward if you try to run the seat belt from this location in from the back as again, a large portion will be under the seat. Put tension on it and its going to pull the seat up.... Anyone got pics of seat belts actually attached here? |
I use stock-ish lap belt only, so my installation is a bit simpler than a 3 way retractable setup. If I had my kids in the car a lot, or if I used the car daily, I would likely install 3-way.
I believe I oriented the metal bracket up, so that the belt does not get caught under the seat. I will take a pic as soon as I can and post it.
As far as why the seatback mounting bolt area is not more heavily reinforced; I believe it is because of the construction and orientation of that piece of body metal. Even if you welded in a reinforcement plate, and threaded the bolt into that, you would (in the event of a collision of any significance) still have a person's center of gravity placing a sudden and considerable force on that unanchored sheet metal. I believe the result would be similar to yanking someone's earring through their earlobe. In an accident, I think a persons weight would just yank the sheet metal and any reinforcement material off of the body.
The other mounting points are achieved by placing oversized threaded plates directly behind the body metal. The forces are different in these locations, and the force needed to actually pull those oversized plates THROUGH the body metal would be much more extreme. _________________ Plate of shrimp |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5311 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Im using 3 point non-retractable. I did move the outer bottom back to the chassis bolt as I agree its probably more secure and oriented the metal part of the belt so it puts the belt out of the side of the seat in between the seat and door panel. While probably more secure, I wonder if something happened if it wouldn't just pull the seat belt and twist the metal attachment? |
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Bala Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003 Posts: 2613 Location: Austin, TX
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: I need to install 3 point retractable seat belts in my 1965 |
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Sharp64 wrote: |
Im using 3 point non-retractable. I did move the outer bottom back to the chassis bolt as I agree its probably more secure and oriented the metal part of the belt so it puts the belt out of the side of the seat in between the seat and door panel. While probably more secure, I wonder if something happened if it wouldn't just pull the seat belt and twist the metal attachment? |
I didn't angle it sideways, but just off center from oriented straight up. First pic shows the bracket, and I am holding the belt up for visibility.
Second picture shows how the belt lays across the seat. Third picture is an awkward angle looking straight down on where the bracket mounts with the seat bottom in place.
_________________ Plate of shrimp |
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