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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22671 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Shrimp brake shies
Shrimp brake pads
Shrimp wheel cylinders
Shrimp brake hose...
I think that's it.... _________________ .ssS! |
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Hikelite Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012 Posts: 557 Location: Colville, WA
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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What an awesome trip!
Thanks for sharing. My wife and I are planning a similar adventure for the end of next year. I'll be following along for sure. _________________ ~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7109
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GoBigEmma Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2016 Posts: 209 Location: Currently scattered between Mexico and Illinois
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Hey folks,
thanks for your help and concern! We got our rear brake parts ordered today, they should be here tomorrow. We got a set of new shoes (yap, for both wheels. We'll think about bringing spares along, but they are kind of big and bulky..), new drums (I guess we could have gotten ours machined.. I kind of didn't think of that in time I must admit. Mh..), and new cylinders.
Now for the front brakes: We just took off the passenger side today, but let's assume the other side's status is comparable. The pads seem in OK condition to me. They are not totally smooth, but not falling apart either. A few crumbs are missing around the edges. What do you think? I don't have good ones to compare with..
Tcash wrote: |
Let's see the front brake rotors? |
Here we go:
I didn't sand them yet, that might make 'em better. I remember the Bentley (or the Idiot Guide?) talked about grooves, which give away a bad rotor. I can't feel any deep grooves, but there's a bunch of spots as you can see (I suppose compressed bad dust?). How can I tell if they are toast?
And finally: The rubber seal inside our caliper doesn't look so good. If I understood the Bentley correctly replacing that would require taking the caliber apart, which seemed very difficult without proper equipment. Or did I get that wrong? How bad would it be leaving the seal like this?
scubasteve321 wrote: |
Were you pressing the brake with the drum off by chance? |
Nope, didn't do that. It's also more of a dampness under the cylinders, not really wet. I've definitely seen fluid leaking out of the passenger side drum, but the cylinder doesn't seem wet. Dunno, but even if we end up not replacing them, it's good to have spares.
Hikelite wrote: |
What an awesome trip!
Thanks for sharing. My wife and I are planning a similar adventure for the end of next year. I'll be following along for sure. |
Thanks! I remember how the last year was before we started, this feeling of wanting to get out there now right now, but not being able to yet. Following others helped me a great deal through the preparations, so I'm happy to now be able to be on the other side
Sven _________________ 1975 Bus "Big Emma", 1.8 FI, Hydraulic lifters
Interrupting our Pan-American Roadtrip for post-flood repairs: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657738
Follow the trip on our blog: http://www.gobigemma.com |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Quote: |
The pads seem in OK condition to me. |
Pads still have some life in them.
See the groove in the middle. When that is gone time to change them.
Sand them with some 80 grit sand paper.
I wood change them before I got south of the border.
Tcash wrote
Quote: |
Let's see the front brake rotors?
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I do not see any bluing which is good. Sand the rotors with 80 grit paper too.
You do not want to see any bluing or feel any unevenness when you run a finger nail across the rotor.
Quote: |
The rubber seal inside our caliper doesn't look so good. |
That is the dust boot you are looking at. By design it is meant to keep brake dust off of the actual piston seal.
This is bad, it will allow brake dust which is abrasive, to ruin the caliper seal.
Best bet is too buy rebuilt calipers.
There are two different ones.
Girling has hair clips to hold the pins in.
ATE does not have hair clips.
The brake shoes are the same for both calipers.
Make sure you get the break pads for 73-79 and not 71-72
The 71-72 pads will fit, but are as about as thick as what you have in your hand when they are new.
The 73-79 part number 251 698 151A are much thicker.
That tow sounded like a hairy ride.
I have thought about installing a CB in the bus and carrying two way radios to stay in contact with traveling companions.
This would have been me. SLOW THE HELL DOWN.
Good luck
Tcash |
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aerosurfer Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012 Posts: 1602 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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O'rielly auto parts has rebuilt calipers at a reasonable price. Its not too big of a job to swap out the calipers and rebleed. While you would have the calipers off, it may be time to just do all the rubber brake lines at each corner. _________________ Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness
77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!
72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone) |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6986 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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^Nice thought. But, do you really want to be going to South America with O'rielly calipers? I'm finding it hard to believe the brake system wasn't gone through before hitting the road. Front pads look ok but the rears are toast, How? Were they 20 years old? super cheap? Adjusted wrong? Used ebrake to slow down during the tow (@85)?
There's nothing wrong with scuffing up the brake surface of the drum with some sand paper before reinstall. This would be a good time to inspect and lube the ebrake cable/cables and all moving parts. Having a well functioning ebrake is worth the 15 min of maintance time. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12729 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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As I'm sure Colin taught you, a cross-hatch sand of the drums and shoes is a kindness to your car.
Robbie
_________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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aerosurfer Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012 Posts: 1602 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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richparker wrote: |
^Nice thought. But, do you really want to be going to South America with O'rielly calipers? I'm finding it hard to believe the brake system wasn't gone through before hitting the road. Front pads look ok but the rears are toast, How? Were they 20 years old? super cheap? Adjusted wrong? Used ebrake to slow down during the tow (@85)?
There's nothing wrong with scuffing up the brake surface of the drum with some sand paper before reinstall. This would be a good time to inspect and lube the ebrake cable/cables and all moving parts. Having a well functioning ebrake is worth the 15 min of maintance time. |
They are genuine ATE calipers. I have them on mine from Oriellys. That info was in my draft but then the screen refreshed, I guess i left that part out. Oops. They can do as they wish, but do you suggest they continue with caliper seals that look like that? Besides their route is taking them north first. South of the border is plenty of time away to get their brakes sorted out. Im surprised too that the roadwarrior didnt address brakes _________________ Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness
77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!
72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone) |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:21 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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X2 on changing the calipers right now. Install them and then you have plenty of time in the USA to see if any issues arise before going S. of the border. If the rubber soft lines where not changed on the front or rear, it would be a great idea to swap them with new now as well. Cheap and takes little time to do it.
There's only so many things Colin can do during a short visit with a client. We don't know the exact list of "to do's" these folks were left with after Colin left. We all know it takes LOTS of time to thoroughly go through a 40+ year old buses systems, especially for folks who are not mechanics.
The good news for this couple is that they are spending lots of time in the states to do a good "shake out" cruise before going to Mexico. Hopefully all the quirks or issues present themselves before the bus is pointed south. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Get the most sorted you can, looking like we will be doing another inspection here in Seattle... _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22671 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Those pads are fine, but those rotors are not. I would guess your calipers are sticking and not letting the pistons push evenly on the rotors.
The rotors should like almost like mirrors - smooth and evenly polished where the pads hit. funkiness off the pad wear annulus (the math name for a bagel in two dimensions) is ok and normal.
Those dark spots where the pads should be wearing are telling you the calipers aren't right.
Save your old drums for spares. get them turned if they are funky. You can lightly oil them to stop them from rusting, then use gas on a rag to clean the oil off before you put them back in service.
You really should get brakes like new before a trip like this. Replace all parts, keep old ones as spares. If you can't carry them, box them, label them with codes, and have someone at home or on Samba ready to ship them to you on a heartbeat. _________________ .ssS! |
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andrewtf Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2011 Posts: 604 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:15 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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I'll weigh in a bit (as I know a little bit more of the entire tale). I'm sure Sven and Emma will chime in as well.....
Every major mechanical system was gone thru with Colin. Indeed - that is why they feel confident in doing this work themselves in a parking lot in Denver. All systems were pretty much up to snuff when they pulled out of the driveway - or at least as up to snuff as 40 year old vehicles can be. Brakes were definitely taken apart and thoroughly scrutinized and tutorialized.
What caused this debacle was the horrifying tow on the interstate, which necessitated much braking and distress - to both Big Emma and the passengers. The sad part is that if the tow guy (who just happened to stop about 30 seconds after they pulled over) was 5 minutes later, they would have had the problem fixed and not needed the tow (fixed mostly due to Collin's instructional abilities).
I believe the front brakes are going to be attended to in Denver and then refreshed in Montana where they will have some more time and part shipping availability.
As Emma's dad - I thank you all for your support and offers of meet ups, parking spots, and technical assistance along their journey, and of course cold beer, and any other comforts.
I assume it goes without saying that I have also told them to be careful around Stewart (only kidding) when they get to Seattle.
thanks - Andrew _________________ '75 Riviera - 'BIG EMMA' (Pan American highway trip paused for a make over)
'77 Riviera - Murphy' (being reborn.... slowly)
'63 Austin Healey |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Hehehe......
_________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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GoBigEmma Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2016 Posts: 209 Location: Currently scattered between Mexico and Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Hey guys,
thanks for your helpful comments and ideas! To make a case for Colin: Yes, we went through the brake system, we checked it all and it was in good condition. Of course that was before the string of really bad decisions on the interstate (including e-brake use while being towed. I learned my lesson, trust me).
Thanks to Colin, we feel confident to do these repairs on our own, having seen and done this before helps immensely.
Tcash wrote: |
Pads still have some life in them.
(...)
I do not see any bluing which is good. Sand the rotors with 80 grit paper too. |
Thanks, we will treat our pads and rotors to a spa day with sand paper before we hit the road again.
asiab3 wrote: |
As I'm sure Colin taught you, a cross-hatch sand of the drums and shoes is a kindness to your car. |
He did
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
Get the most sorted you can, looking like we will be doing another inspection here in Seattle... |
We'll try to present you with a bus in good condition, but then again there is Alaska in the way. Thanks for your offer! _________________ 1975 Bus "Big Emma", 1.8 FI, Hydraulic lifters
Interrupting our Pan-American Roadtrip for post-flood repairs: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657738
Follow the trip on our blog: http://www.gobigemma.com |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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Are you hitting Alaska before Seattle?
If you hit Seattle first it's the last frontier to stock up really well on bus stuff before hitting the open areas.
By the way, what are you running for lighting? You will definitely want SOMETHING more then headlights for backcountry....
You can ship to me if you desire and pick up when you get here and install too. _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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That's not a bad idea Stu. Plus Stu is a wizard procuring parts. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: Re: GoBigEmma Pan-American Roadtrip log |
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I mean light HID driving lights or a LED light bar. Go big or go Emma!
...wait.
_________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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