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ZacharyRitter
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:16 pm Post subject: Top End Rebuild? |
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| I have experienced a drop in cylinder pressure and time for a rebuild. I am mechanically inclined and have plenty of tools but I will say this is my first VW rebuild. Beside the obvious of sleeves, pistons, rings and push rod tubes and engine gasket set; what should I anticipate far as parts. I do not know how many miles the engine has on it since last rebuild. I know that this Thing is bone stock 1600 dual port (AM case). I am looking to go 88mm slip in kit. I want to go to the max size for horsepower reasons without having to send it for boring. I know that brands of kits are up for great debate, but I am looking at EuroMax as the replacement brand. What are your thoughts? This vehicle is used for occasional driving and hopefully one day can be used as a daily driver. Additionally, I do not have a Bentley book and can't find one "Thing" specific, I am under the impression that the Ghia Bentley is what is used for Things, is this correct? |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76962
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild? |
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88s have thin walls and tend to warp if overheated. I would not use them in a Thing.
Euromax is China crap.
I'd suggest getting Mahle/Cima 85.5 and get a set of ported heads with dual carbs. You'll get more power than putting in 88s.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild? |
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First of all, how have you determined you have a cylinder pressure loss? Did you measure it? Something that has just happened, car is new to you or what?
Top end rebuild is not a big deal - but make sure you check crank end play to determine that a bottom end rebuild is not needed as well. Do a search on this, but a quick and dirty is to grab the crank pulley and push and yank on it hard. If you think you felt it move a tiny bit, but didnt see any movement, you are probably OK. A real measurement is more involved (do a search) but this is a quick indication of what you are dealing with.
Back to the rebuild. Spring for stainless pushrod tubes. They are expensive, but they wont rust. Thats all I use anymore. Also, I use the Empi white/clear silicone seals. They work great. I started buying the 100 count bulk packs.
Pistons/cylinders - have been AAs for the last few years. They got a bad rap years ago, but I have no issues. Very happy and I typically stay with stock size for one of the reasons Glenn mentioned. There may be other options out there, but I don't use them. Unless you are planning other performance enhancements, your stock heads should be fine, but their condition needs assessed.
If you need new ones, you could go with a mild performance head as Glenn mentioned so you are ready if you ever do anything else like down the road like dual carbs etc. For a stock head thats affordable, CIP1 has these http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-98-1356-B. I installed a set for a customer last year and I was really pleasantly surprised with how nice they were. Acutally, I was shocked at how nice they were. Keep in mind that a well setup stock 1600 runs surprisingly well.
So just to keep a tally - you are in about $550 in parts so far with new P/C. heads and tubes. You'll need some gaskets. And while the engine is out, check you transaxle mounts, clutch/pressure plate/ throwout, input shaft seal and crank seal. About another $200 for good parts if doing all that. And take a good look at your carb and distributor to see if they need serviced.
This really isnt rocket science. Any of the decent manuals will get you through this - Not super familiar with Things (only worked on one), so you have a unique exhaust and a few other things, but the basic engine is the same as a bug. Don't overthink any of this. Just follow good shop practices
Good luck.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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ZacharyRitter
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild? |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
First of all, how have you determined you have a cylinder pressure loss? Did you measure it? Something that has just happened, car is new to you or what?
Top end rebuild is not a big deal - but make sure you check crank end play to determine that a bottom end rebuild is not needed as well. Do a search on this, but a quick and dirty is to grab the crank pulley and push and yank on it hard. If you think you felt it move a tiny bit, but didnt see any movement, you are probably OK. A real measurement is more involved (do a search) but this is a quick indication of what you are dealing with.
Back to the rebuild. Spring for stainless pushrod tubes. They are expensive, but they wont rust. Thats all I use anymore. Also, I use the Empi white/clear silicone seals. They work great. I started buying the 100 count bulk packs.
Pistons/cylinders - have been AAs for the last few years. They got a bad rap years ago, but I have no issues. Very happy and I typically stay with stock size for one of the reasons Glenn mentioned. There may be other options out there, but I don't use them. Unless you are planning other performance enhancements, your stock heads should be fine, but their condition needs assessed.
If you need new ones, you could go with a mild performance head as Glenn mentioned so you are ready if you ever do anything else like down the road like dual carbs etc. For a stock head thats affordable, CIP1 has these http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-98-1356-B. I installed a set for a customer last year and I was really pleasantly surprised with how nice they were. Acutally, I was shocked at how nice they were. Keep in mind that a well setup stock 1600 runs surprisingly well.
So just to keep a tally - you are in about $550 in parts so far with new P/C. heads and tubes. You'll need some gaskets. And while the engine is out, check you transaxle mounts, clutch/pressure plate/ throwout, input shaft seal and crank seal. About another $200 for good parts if doing all that. And take a good look at your carb and distributor to see if they need serviced.
This really isnt rocket science. Any of the decent manuals will get you through this - Not super familiar with Things (only worked on one), so you have a unique exhaust and a few other things, but the basic engine is the same as a bug. Don't overthink any of this. Just follow good shop practices
Good luck. |
I have measure the cylinder pressure and all read around 80, but #3 is less than 70 this is a warm engine. After squirting motor oil direct into the cylinder the come up to around 90, except #3. Yes, this car is new to me, just purchased in Feburary 2016.
I have stainless tubes on my list. I will check my end play and get back to you. Do you use the Teflon plugs on the piston pins as suggested from cip?
I am trying to keep this car bone stock so I am going to keep at original size 1600. I have sent off for the "birth certificate" just to see if the engine case is original. It has never been in an accident but the paint is not original, but has no rust at all... CA vehicle... Bn4 heater works great!!! Everything else right down to the spare tire is period correct.
Thanks again for both of your input... |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild? |
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I just use the clips that come with them. Never had an issue. I do suggest that you do a leakdown test as well before you tear it down. Will help identify valve issues. And yeah, 70 and lower is not real good.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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