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bwaz Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004 Posts: 1780
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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What a transformation, amazing skills Dr. Henry! |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 880 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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johnshenry wrote: |
Zwitterkafer wrote: |
Informative post by JH, as always. While contemplating fitting a 36hp manifold on 25hp heads, (the 36hp end casting ODs are usually milled down to fit) I was curious if anyone had ever transferred donor 25hp end castings onto a good early 36hp manifold, without cutting the latter? It would be easy if the end castings were just a press fit (some supposedly are) but most seem to be brazed on which makes it a bit of a challenge. Just wondering if anyone has attempted this and has any advice? |
While I believe anything is "possible", I can tell you that swapping endcastings by pulling, re-pressing is well... impossible. It is a chamfered edge on the tube end inside the casting so there is virtually impossible to push it out, and I think it is probably heat pressed in, there is no copper crush ring. You'd probably have to slit and collapse it a bit to get it out, thereby creating more stuff to deal with.
I am able to mill 36hp castings to work with 25hp heads (there is a pic back in this thread of the tool I made, I think), but in this case, I wanted to use the original 25hp casting so it matched the other side. |
Agreed, I would not attempt to press the 36hp end castings off to prepare for the swap. Instead, I would cut slits into the 36hp end castings on the outside, fracture them, and remove piece by piece, even by grinding if necessary. It might work because the braze holding them on is not continuous and has weak spots.
The donor 25hp end castings I have already have the old tubing all but removed from their insides......still some stubborn brazed spots. If both the donor end castings and the 36hp tubing could be cleaned up, then it should be a simple matter of slipping the two together, aligning, and sweating braze into the joint. The critical part in all of this is to maintain an undamaged ID of the 36 hp tubing, which tapers to a very thin end as you pointed out.
I think I will try this on some scrap to see if it is feasible. _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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The later 25hp endcastings (as on the zwitter intake) are not brazed on, I think it is a pure interference fit (under heat). 36hp ones also. Now it would be interesting to try it with a brazed on 25hp endcasting (early jacketed Ks and earlier Ks) but finding "donor/scrap" ones of those would be tough.
I do have a bunch of junk 36'ers and a pair of later 25hp castings cut off that I might be able to experiment with. If I do I will post the findings. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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stanovich Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2013 Posts: 191 Location: central coast calif
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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1st, I havent read the whole post, So does anyone make a new copy of the original intakes. should be a strait forward process . the most difficult is casting the heat sink area. |
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bwaz Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004 Posts: 1780
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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No, not a big enough market i would expect |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Here's some pics of the repaired intake. It is media blasted, painted and baked. You can see the slight distortion along the intake runner but I think once installed with the ignition wire tube and all, it will look pretty good.
_________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Regarding the fitting/removal of the endcasting from the intake runner tubing; I tried the "slice and peel" method on a 36hp endcasting. It appears that it is likely copper paste soldered. No easy way to slip it off, unless maybe you really heated the whole thing up to glowing.
_________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 880 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Yes, that is exactly what I encountered with the donor 25hp end castings. The copper paste solder, or whatever it is, is not present everywhere, so there are weak spots. Thanks for posting! _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Ok, I have officially thrown in the towel trying to make this Zwitter heat riser section. I bought 24 feet of this metric spec tubing and made 2 perfect ones, and one so-so one, and totally trashed all of the rest of it. I used the exact same methods that I used to make the perfect ones and over and over the tubing kinked. Drives me crazy. I tried compacting the sand in the tubing in a 20 ton press and capping it, I tried suspending a piece in the bender with magnets and heating it until glowing red, greasing the bending shoes, etc., etc and still the same result. How I managed to make 2 perfectly and then crap results for the next 8-10 may never be known. Nearly $200 of bent, kinked tubing to the metal recycler.
Of course there are machines out there that can pop these things out in seconds once programmed, so I am now fishing for quotes.....
_________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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coolparts Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004 Posts: 194
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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How many of each pipe you looking for ?
Nelson |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Depends on pricing. I'd say between 10 and 25. I have a source for the 18 x 1mm steel tubing. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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53kombi Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004 Posts: 254 Location: Hot and Humid, Southeast
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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_________________ Looking for these items for my June '53 kombi:
Barndoor 25hp case 20-060XXXX (June '53)
Barndoor Eberspacher gas heater. ('53-'55)
1 barndoor 16" wheel (Lemmerz dated 2/53)
NOS german 25hp/36hp oil pump
Zwitter intake manifold |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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You need to find a vendor with a CNC Mandrel bender that can handle that size tubing. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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mr. warehouse Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2001 Posts: 5001 Location: Nor Cal 707
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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johnshenry wrote: |
Depends on pricing. I'd say between 10 and 25. I have a source for the 18 x 1mm steel tubing. |
Can you email me a high resolution copy of your drawing.
I think I can get it done for you. |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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There was a thread somewhere discussing the differences somewhere between Standard and Deluxe speedo pods.... but I can't find it right now, so I will post here. I recently bought a few pods, an original ivory bakelite and brown standard among them. I the pics below, you can see the differences. The Standard one has a 95mm opening and a lip on the back side. When the standard, brown bezel speedo is installed, the bezel does not protrude to the front. The deluxe one is 100mm opening and the chromed bezel on the deluxe speedo sticks all the way through the pod and its outside edge is seen on the front of the pod. Also, the speedo securing M5 bolt bosses are different on the std. vs deluxe pods.
_________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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usariemen Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004 Posts: 1745 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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The info may be added that the up to spring 1949 big switch pods have a 100 mm opening as well and the speedo will stick out of the front a bit.
_________________ Master of my domain! |
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Mr. OGPaint Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010 Posts: 823 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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I wanted to say thanks to John Henry for helping me out recently. What a great guy. He modded a 36hp manifold for my 25hp to get me up and running in a pinch and helped me out in many other ways recently which I will chronicle soon.. I had my hands full and couldn't stop by for a visit, but I promise I will in the future. I'll share more in a complete thread soon but for now I just want to sincerely say thank you John. _________________ https://instagram.com/mr.ogpaint
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Patrick Hall |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Glad to have helped out, and a great story you now have to tell too. I am sure the readership here will love to hear and see pics!!! _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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kevm Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 263 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Hi John,
I wonder if you can help me with details of how you deal with the rivets and bulb contacts please, I see you tap the switch stems and use 2.5mm machine screws for the switches. Do you do the same for the bulb contacts and earth connector rivets? Also can I make new connectors from brass or do I need a donor.
As you can see my Bakelite pod is good but the contacts and earth connector are very rough... I have a good speedo.
Thanks
Kevin |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Zarwerks shop spy cam .... |
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Hi Kevm. Sorry for the late reply. Replacing the bulb contacts is dicey, especially if you want some thing stock looking. The old rivet can be ground off and you have a solid brass block embedded in the bakelite to work with. Drilling and tapping for a screw certainly it do able, but I don't do it as it does not look correct.
What I have done successfully is to drill the block at 4mm and soldering a short 4mm OD x 3mm ID segment of brass tubing into that hole creating a new "rivet". The hole in the bulb contacts and eyelets is 4mm. The trick is 1) to use a drill press to drill the block and not go all the way through the pod (!) the drilling should not go all the way through the brass block an into the bakelite and 2) to cut grind the tubing to just the right height so that you can use a cone tipped punch to peen over the lip just like a rivet. Make it too "high" and it takes too much hammering to peen over flat. The tube needs to be soldered down into the bottom of the drilled bore so it can withstand some light tapping. I put the pod on a flat surface on a towel so the face is not marred/cracked.
I have pics of this repair somewhere, search my pics in the gallery. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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