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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I have a new engine with probably no more than 1000 miles on it, newly rebuilt VW/Solex carb by volkzbitz, NOS Brosol (OEM VW supplier) fuel pump, original Bosch coil and distributor, Bosch plug wires and plugs, and original oil bath air cleaner. No crappy aftermarket parts on this car at all right now. It started and ran with WAY fewer problems 2 years ago when i had a leaky fuel pump, crappy Empi chrome filter and just dunked the carb in Berryman's chem dip. Back then it would fire RIGHT UP EVERY TIME. It might occasionally stumble accelerating from a stop but it would idle fine in gear and it would fire up IMMEDIATELY. EVERY TIME. I didn't have to hold the key for 20 seconds like I do now. And it would high idle steady and smooth, and idle down perfectly as engine warmed up--now it's completely unsteady until it settles down and it has a slight pop at higher idle like a slight misfire.
And I cannot keep it running OK for more than a week. Checked fuel pump check valve. Checked float needle valve in carb and cleaned out all jets. Tried timing and retiming and REtiming, tried tuning the carb every which way from Sunday following Volkzbitz procedure and VW resource and will get it idling smooth and timing dead on and then it says SCREW YOU. It will NOT stay the same way it was when I tune it! I drive for maybe a few days and then suddenly I get home and it craps out in the driveway for NO reason at all. When it happened again this afternoon (after spending all weekend trying to get it tuned right following every procedure to the letter, and running OK earlier in the day) I got it fired back up after holding the key turned for 20 SECONDS, checked the timing at idle and it had RETARDED 7 DEGREES. FOR NO REASON. WHAT THE FUCK. I have tried everything and NO ONE on here or otherwise can figure it out. Sick of this shit. I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THIS IN PERSON AND HELP ME. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16757 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Carb base to intake and intake to heads. Also spray careully along he intake itself. Have seen holes in the intake.
Just for shits and giggle, cap of the vacuum ports on the carb that go to the distributor. Idle speed will change, but is it stable?
Have you verified our fuel pressure. Should be around 3 lbs.
Here's one for you - just ran into this - Terrible idle, very hard to start, Was fine after being serviced for a couple days (not by me) then went to hell. I found the idel jet was loose. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51171 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Have you ever done anything with the fuel tank?, when you take the lid off the float bowl is there any fine brown silt in the bottom? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24770 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Does it seem that the timing shifting around is the main problem? _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Pls don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be negative. Is there a VW club or person in your area that can come to you and the car and look it over? You've been struggling with this for a long time now.
Maybe it's time to have someone with much more VW aircooled experience go over the engine, carb, distributor, etc.. Maybe their more experienced eyes can identify exactly what the issues are with your motor. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9830 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there. |
Hi, Steve.
I am sorry for your bad luck.
I truly hope that you get this situation figured out.
After working on these things for about 55 years now, I know how frustrating they can be. |
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melville Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2006 Posts: 1247 Location: Just Outside the Redwood Curtain
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Check for lubricant on the points where they rub the shaft, and (related) your point gap. _________________ 2000 M Roadster
79 R100RS
78 R100/7
75 R75/6
65 Standard Micro
57 Sedan |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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So, what influences timing?
Distributor clamp loosening up on you? Re-time and use a marker to draw a line at the base of the distributor and the edge of the clamp. If the lines separate after running the car a few days, get a new clamp.
Got the correct Bosch condenser for your distributor?
Got good Bosch points? Does the dwell also change on you? I had a set of Autozone points where the spring actually broke in half. The car still ran--but not very well. I changed to new Bosch points after seeing that.
Got side-to-side wiggle in your distributor shaft?
If your timing is changing, I'd look closely at the above items.
Edit: while you're in there, check and scrape clean the rotor, distributor cap, four interior points of cap, and the springy carbon point in the center of the cap.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2241 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Is there anything to the vacuum signal that could/would cause the timing to retard the way described?
With an auto stick, is it possible to run a 009 to test, verify,, isolate, eliminate at least one variable?
I'm sure youll get it squared away.
Rev _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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iowegian wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there. |
Hi, Steve.
I am sorry for your bad luck.
I truly hope that you get this situation figured out.
After working on these things for about 55 years now, I know how frustrating they can be. |
Iowegian,you are a kind and decent man, offering up your condolences. I view this from a different angle...karma... "what goes around comes around" or whatever you ascribe revisiting your past indiscretions...what I find most interesting is the severity of the torture,and how the boy perpetuates his misery with his shitty condescending attitude.. a textbook example of a death spiral. |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Joe Bence Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 501 Location: San Diego, CA
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Chris913653 Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2012 Posts: 212 Location: South Africa
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Just because a part is new doesn't mean it's good... process of elimination, throw in a different dizzy - still have the same issue, then at least you know it's not that... then carry on... |
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itskyle Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013 Posts: 634 Location: Plainfield, IN
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
I have a new engine with probably no more than 1000 miles on it, newly rebuilt VW/Solex carb by volkzbitz, NOS Brosol (OEM VW supplier) fuel pump, original Bosch coil and distributor, Bosch plug wires and plugs, and original oil bath air cleaner. No crappy aftermarket parts on this car at all right now. It started and ran with WAY fewer problems 2 years ago when i had a leaky fuel pump, crappy Empi chrome filter and just dunked the carb in Berryman's chem dip. Back then it would fire RIGHT UP EVERY TIME. It might occasionally stumble accelerating from a stop but it would idle fine in gear and it would fire up IMMEDIATELY. EVERY TIME. I didn't have to hold the key for 20 seconds like I do now. And it would high idle steady and smooth, and idle down perfectly as engine warmed up--now it's completely unsteady until it settles down and it has a slight pop at higher idle like a slight misfire.
And I cannot keep it running OK for more than a week. Checked fuel pump check valve. Checked float needle valve in carb and cleaned out all jets. Tried timing and retiming and REtiming, tried tuning the carb every which way from Sunday following Volkzbitz procedure and VW resource and will get it idling smooth and timing dead on and then it says SCREW YOU. It will NOT stay the same way it was when I tune it! I drive for maybe a few days and then suddenly I get home and it craps out in the driveway for NO reason at all. When it happened again this afternoon (after spending all weekend trying to get it tuned right following every procedure to the letter, and running OK earlier in the day) I got it fired back up after holding the key turned for 20 SECONDS, checked the timing at idle and it had RETARDED 7 DEGREES. FOR NO REASON. WHAT THE FUCK. I have tried everything and NO ONE on here or otherwise can figure it out. Sick of this shit. I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THIS IN PERSON AND HELP ME. |
Have you checked spark plug gap?
Remember, not all new Bosch parts are made in Deutschland, some are made in China.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
As an aside, does anybody know what is going on with vwar.org? I registered for membership but haven't heard back.
Kyle _________________ --
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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Goldbug3318 Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 210 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Pls don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be negative. Is there a VW club or person in your area that can come to you and the car and look it over? You've been struggling with this for a long time now.
Maybe it's time to have someone with much more VW aircooled experience go over the engine, carb, distributor, etc.. Maybe their more experienced eyes can identify exactly what the issues are with your motor. |
sb001,
I would do the above. I've run into issues like the above from time to time with different cars I have. I am not sure what your background is, but sometimes it's a simple fix that an air-cooled mechanic with years of experience can figure out. vs continuing to throw new parts at it & increasing your frustration. I also mean this as a positive. Good luck to you & I hope it runs like new soon!!
Mike _________________ 1971 Super Beetle 1302S
1641 DP, lowered, 914's, etc...
1990 Ford Mustang Coupe
2008 Ford Mustang Coupe
2003 Chevy Corvette |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76963 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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VW engines are basically 4 cylinder lawn mower engines.
There's not really much to go wrong. So start at the beginning and recheck.
1) adjust and confirm that the valves are moving and have the correct lash.
2) confirm compression and maybe do a leak down test
3) ignition - check the spark plugs and gap them. Check for play in the distributor drive. What distributor? Is it working correctly? Does it have points or a electronic replacement? Adjust the dwell. Adjust the ignition timing. Confirm that the vacuum advance works. Confirm that the mechanical advance works.
4) Fuel - Is the tank clean, replace the fuel lines, add a filter before the pump and adjust the carb.
5) check for manifold leaks at the heads, the boots, the base of the carb and the carb itself.
Aftermarket carbs and distributors can have very poor quality control, so don't ASSume they are working correctly out of the box. Many need to be taken apart, fixed and rebuilt.
These engines are not "rocket science". Get someone else to look at it with you. You could be missing the same thing everytime you work on it. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9830 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
So, what influences timing?
Distributor clamp loosening up on you? Re-time and use a marker to draw a line at the base of the distributor and the edge of the clamp. If the lines separate after running the car a few days, get a new clamp.
Got the correct Bosch condenser for your distributor?
Got good Bosch points? Does the dwell also change on you? I had a set of Autozone points where the spring actually broke in half. The car still ran--but not very well. I changed to new Bosch points after seeing that.
Got side-to-side wiggle in your distributor shaft?
If your timing is changing, I'd look closely at the above items.
Tim |
This. |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Oh good lord,its become a cause....a loose cam gear can cause timing scatter.Timing scatter can cause intermittent starting problems..Hook your timing light up and aim it at the timing mark,run the engine at different rpms,and through a smooth acceleration,watch the timing mark advance,it should rise smoothly..if it chatters or jumps around excessively.. and the distributor shaft is tight.. remove the oil pump and check the cam gear bolts/rivets.A sticking distributor flyweight will give the same results.
Bullshit Glenn,it is rocket science...sport model lawn mower my ass.. |
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