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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Thought I'd share another of my hard knocks lessons... multiple lessons here...
Left for the BugOut in Petersburg VA at 7 a.m today along with my wife and a buddy in tow in his '71 Super. 50+ miles into the ride, just outside the Fredericksburg exit, the bug sputters, loses power and stalls. I managed to coast to the side of the road at the rest stop exit.
Rick and I looked at it. Had spark, looked like I was getting gas. Concluded the computronix module was ok. Temp was around 210 at the dipstick. Oil level was good. I thought maybe I had lost compression but didn't have that tool with me. It would turn, start for a sec, then die. Meanwhile my poor wife is overheating and unhappy. Finally thru in the towel and rented a uhaul with the trailer and towed the bug home.
Later, when I got the energy the energy to begin troubleshooting, got my compression tester and other tools, I started w the fuel pump. My younger son turned the engine while I had the end of the fuel pump hose in a jar. Good flow of gas it looked like. Next I was going to open up the car to check the bowl, float and needle valve.
Then my son points out that he had seen gas dribbling out the left side of the muffler after we'd unloaded the car earlier and that there was also gas on the ground underneath the left framehorn...sure enough, it was dribbling again.
I head recently changed all my fuel lines... except the one between the tunnel and the engine compartment. The line was rotted and soaked with gas. Apparently enough got thru to make me think gas wasn't the problem and much mire of it was pouring thru the hose onto the ground. I'm guessing this a low fuel pressure problem. But I replaced the hose w/non-braided modern ethanol-rated hose, problem solved.
Lesson 1 - change all the damn hoses when renewing them.
Lesson 2 - no more braded fuel hose
Lesson 3 - buy a top of the line AAA roadside assistance plan already!!! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Glad there was no fire involved in this story _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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enjoyther1de Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010 Posts: 1279 Location: chino,ca
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Brian wrote: |
Glad there was no fire involved in this story |
I was on the edge of my seat the whole time! _________________ HBB took me to BBV. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76976 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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enjoyther1de wrote: |
Brian wrote: |
Glad there was no fire involved in this story |
I was on the edge of my seat the whole time! |
Yep, thanks, and let me tell you I was saved that probably by the angle at which I rolled and came to a stop at the side of the road. Once home with the engine cooled off and the car parked, the fuel my son saw had run the length of the left side heat exchanger and dripped off where the muffler donut bracket attached. Had that happened on the road with the engine at full running temps it would've been bye-bye Bug, at best.
Glen, thanks for that link. Added to my favorites for future purchase.
Victor _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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When I bought my bus, within the first week the fuel line between the tank and the steel line to the engine was wet and would drip. Of course the fuel tank was almost full. After the gas shower, I had the old braided hose in my hand. It was so dry and brittle. If I tried to bend it in half, it would rip. I'm not sure how old that hose was but I'd bet over 20 years.
I still use the German braided hose in all my VW's. I've never had any issues with it and inspect it frequently. I change the hose probably every 5 years just because. I've also never seen any documented evidence of this hose deteriorating inside due to the ethanol fuel. Every time I replaced the 5 year old hose, I look inside it and it looks perfectly fine. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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This specific stretch of hose lasted about 2 years. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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goober Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2003 Posts: 1183
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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I replaced all the fuel lines on my '69 Bug a couple of weeks also.
It was about 5 years on the old fuel line under the tank. (if I pull the engine for any reason, I always go back with new fuel lines) I knew I hadn't replaced the under-tank line for a while. So, I went to Farm&Fleet and bought some Dayco SAE 30R7 (50 psi w.p. made in USA) fuel line.
I use a little more/longer fuel line under the tank because I have a metal petcock/shut-off valve on the tank and I want to be able to reach that valve from under the car.
To my surprise, (didn't remember), I had previously used Goodyear SAE J30R9 (fuel injector hose, 100 psi(?) made in the EU) under the tank. The J30R9 had a plastic liner and looked to be in excellent shape. It was beautiful...nearly perfect, flexible with little or no signs of age.
I logged the replacement date and hose type used and will replace the under-tank fuel line next time with the J30R9. |
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mrmdls Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2013 Posts: 410 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Where I've read so many posts about Ethanol possibly eating the old rubber braided fuel lines, I change mine every spring when I do a tune up prior to taking my bug out from it's winter slumber.
To some this might seem like a waste of money, however I'd rather be proactive and have peace of mind in making sure my fuel lines are in good shape, than have the possibility of an engine fire due to a leaking fuel line. _________________ 75 model 110 (Basic Bug) - Project Daily Driver |
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Dwayne1m Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011 Posts: 3538 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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vamram wrote: |
This specific stretch of hose lasted about 2 years. |
That is not good at all. Who wants to being changing fuel hoses every year? ESPECIALLY if you have a fuel injection engine!! I have a John Deere riding mower that is 30 years old and I never changed a fuel hose on that thing. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Dwayne1m wrote: |
vamram wrote: |
This specific stretch of hose lasted about 2 years. |
That is not good at all. Who wants to being changing fuel hoses every year? I have a John Deere riding mower that is 30 years old and I never changed a fuel hose on that thing. |
This was braided line I bought from a Pennsylvania-based vendor at one of the shows, sold by the foot off a roll. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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vugbug68 Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2006 Posts: 2696 Location: sacramento
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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I change my braided fuel line every 2-3 years just because, I've never had an issue with the German stuff leaking or cracking but I drive my bug every day so fuel is never just sitting in the system. _________________ 71 Super - Backroad Thrasher
66 Corvair - Weekend Cruiser
90 4 Runner - Muddin |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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vugbug68 wrote: |
I change my braided fuel line every 2-3 years just because, I've never had an issue with the German stuff leaking or cracking but I drive my bug every day so fuel is never just sitting in the system. |
Mine is a daily driver as well. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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mrmdls wrote: |
Where I've read so many posts about Ethanol possibly eating the old rubber braided fuel lines, I change mine every spring when I do a tune up prior to taking my bug out from it's winter slumber.
To some this might seem like a waste of money, however I'd rather be proactive and have peace of mind in making sure my fuel lines are in good shape, than have the possibility of an engine fire due to a leaking fuel line. |
Ironically, I can't think of one post on this site since 2004 on a non-fuel injected VW engine that caught fire because of a rubber hose fuel line rupture. It's usually the brass nipples coming out of the carb or fuel pump that causes the fires. There's not much pressure on the fuel hoses. Usually around 2-4 PSI. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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mrmdls Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2013 Posts: 410 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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I can't say that I've seen any engine fires caused by rubber fuel line rupture. However, there was an older forum post by a DougB who was concerned enough that he wrote to his senator.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592390&highlight=ethanol
Admittedly, when I'm local (which is where most of my driving is), I always use Ethanol free gas. I also remember though when the fuel companies stopped making 80 octane av gas and we're switching to 100LL and the concerns of many classic aircraft owners who had a/c with Continental C65 - C100 engines with their valves.
The reason I make mention of av gas, is Ethanol will cause your engine to run hotter. _________________ 75 model 110 (Basic Bug) - Project Daily Driver |
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Old n' slow Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012 Posts: 619 Location: Western Maryland
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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WOW ! A couple of very important lessons learned...... #1 always check those fuel lines and....#2 leave the wife home whenever possible : ) _________________ Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;
1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel . |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
It's usually the brass nipples coming out |
Old n' slow wrote: |
WOW ! A couple of very important lessons learned...... #2 leave the wife home whenever possible : ) |
I don't think he meant that his wife has brass nipples.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7314 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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Cusser wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
It's usually the brass nipples coming out |
Old n' slow wrote: |
WOW ! A couple of very important lessons learned...... #2 leave the wife home whenever possible : ) |
I don't think he meant that his wife has brass nipples.... |
Yeah, I don't think she'll be making the trip to the June Bug Classic next weekend [EDIT] at the Maple Grove Raceway in Mohnton, PA....
As for fire from a ruptured fuel line - my guess is that had the gas flowed over the heat exchanger and muffler junction at running temps, it would've gone up in smoke. But hey, it didn't! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Zylinderkopf Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2012 Posts: 679 Location: SE Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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That's 7mm line though... _________________ 1963 Beetle
1966 Beetle 1300
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1971 Super Beetle
1974 Thing
"A lot of people never use their initiative because no one told them to." |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Old Fuel Line Lesson Learned |
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I bought German braided 5 mm hose from Wolfgang International about two years ago, and it's still like new. And here in California we have had ethanol gas for a long. I suspect there is good braided out there--and bad.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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