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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:21 pm Post subject: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Yes, this question has been asked a thousand times - but after much searching I don't think anyone has this sort of scenario...
Fresh rebuild 1679; Single relief case; MaxiPump 5; Full flow / external filter
I've been cranking w/ just the starter to prime the oil system... Pulled the sending unit to watch for oil - nothing (bone dry).
So I took the filter out of the loop and just ran a short hose from outlet to inlet on the case - still nothing.
Poured some oil down the hose into the outlet and cranked backwards. Watched the oil get sucked in, hooked it back up, tried again - nothing.
I pulled the hose from the case inlet and cranked just to verify the pump is working - yes, it is gushing oil.
So where is all the oil going??? The pump is pushing it.... but it's never reaching the sending unit hole?
What dumb mistake am I missing here?? _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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If you put oil in the outlet tube again and don't crank it will the oil still drain down? If so someone forgot a gear. The next option if your oil level is to low to prime it. Usually builders put thick oil or assembly lube in the pump to promote priming. If not it is harder in some cases to get the prime started. I would check the level and add a little more if you aren't sure. If the car is jacked up in the back that will make things worse for priming.
Did you prefill the filter? _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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yamaducci wrote: |
If you put oil in the outlet tube again and don't crank it will the oil still drain down? If so someone forgot a gear. The next option if your oil level is to low to prime it. Usually builders put thick oil or assembly lube in the pump to promote priming. If not it is harder in some cases to get the prime started. I would check the level and add a little more if you aren't sure. If the car is jacked up in the back that will make things worse for priming.
Did you prefill the filter? |
It does not drain back down / no missing gear (that would be a bonehead move I wouldn't put myself past )
I did not put grease on the gears / really don't want to pull exhaust, tin, and pulley to do so. My last build primed OK w/o any grease.
If anything, I think I may be slightly over full right now on oil level. Yes, I did pre-fill the oil filter (however, it is currently not in the oil system loop as I have a "bypass" hose for testing now) _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Sorry I didn't know you built it. Any chance you got the shorter pump and it not contacting the cam slot? If you are sure about that then I would fill the outlet hose a couple times and spin it in reverse. if the gears are moving like you say then that will fill the oil pick up tube. Then when you use the starter it should be primed. You may also want to verify the oil plunger is installed and seated correctly. _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Relief valve stuck down? _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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andy198712 wrote: |
Relief valve stuck down? |
Re reading your post, it's not coming out the pump right? If so scrap my idea _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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andy198712 wrote: |
andy198712 wrote: |
Relief valve stuck down? |
Re reading your post, it's not coming out the pump right? If so scrap my idea |
Oil is coming out of the pump, correct. It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere once it is fed back into the case? (As in, it is not ever reaching the oil sender hole) _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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yamaducci wrote: |
Sorry I didn't know you built it. Any chance you got the shorter pump and it not contacting the cam slot? If you are sure about that then I would fill the outlet hose a couple times and spin it in reverse. if the gears are moving like you say then that will fill the oil pick up tube. Then when you use the starter it should be primed. You may also want to verify the oil plunger is installed and seated correctly. |
The maxi pump 5 says it's for flat cams or performance cams w/ bolt on gears - so should be correct for my Engle W100?
I know the plunger is installed and seemed to move freely up & down in the bore. How would you describe begin seated "correctly"? I did use a new plunger, spring, and have an oil temp sender instead of the typical screw that holds it in. _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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stan_tichomirov Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 1719 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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So, if you disconnect the line going from pump to filter adapter, oil comes out of it?
I fill the filter with oil, even then it takes a while to crank before light goes out. You sure it isn't still filling the filter?
Stan _________________ Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1173 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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If you have oil pressure at the oil line going to the case and none at the oil pressure switch hole, you must have some sort of blockage in the case between those two points.......I have seen insect nests built in oil passages. I saw one that looked like rolled up tree or bush leaves!!!
Try a rubber tipped blow gun from the op switch hole and blow through the oil line fitting in the case. _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!
Last edited by rugblaster on Thu May 12, 2016 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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If the filter were backwards? Or the Oil Pressure relief plunger were perhaps stuck or missing. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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hmm is the pump drilled for the maxie in&out cover? was the pump pluged? I never fill the pump with greessee oil should do fine. but be sure the case is full and the emgine/car isant nose down. the oil in the cam chamber helps keep the pump from sucking air around the case/pump interfearance clearance fit. also is the relief valve in corectly? is the spring in there? can you blow through the oil pressure port and it come out the oil pump?
if the pump is pumping and there is a blockage like a pluged pump body or not a in/out pump you can damage the cam/oil pump drive/slot. so figer it out. |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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AggieZig wrote: |
yamaducci wrote: |
Sorry I didn't know you built it. Any chance you got the shorter pump and it not contacting the cam slot? If you are sure about that then I would fill the outlet hose a couple times and spin it in reverse. if the gears are moving like you say then that will fill the oil pick up tube. Then when you use the starter it should be primed. You may also want to verify the oil plunger is installed and seated correctly. |
The maxi pump 5 says it's for flat cams or performance cams w/ bolt on gears - so should be correct for my Engle W100?
I know the plunger is installed and seemed to move freely up & down in the bore. How would you describe begin seated "correctly"? I did use a new plunger, spring, and have an oil temp sender instead of the typical screw that holds it in. |
Sounds like you got the matching parts.The plunger being seated means it goes all the way down the bore freely and seals off the port positively. The thing is with those aftermarket plungers is they are not usually perfectly flat and need to be polished flat. Also if it's an old case the case can get chatter marks in the seat over the hears and those marks cause leakage and lower oil pressure. Just something to consider.
In my build thread I show how to work on the relief port/plunger. _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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rugblaster wrote: |
If you have oil pressure at the oil line going to the case and none at the oil pressure switch hole, you must have some sort of blockage in the case between those two points.......I have seen insect nests built in oil passages. I saw one that looked like rolled up tree or bush leaves!!!
Try a rubber tipped blow gun from the op switch hole and blow through the oil line fitting in the case. |
I'll try to blow some air up the "inlet" in the case today and see what happens. I'm positive the galleries are free though because I ran high pressure cleaner / water / air through them just before the build.
Danwvw wrote: |
If the filter were backwards? Or the Oil Pressure relief plunger were perhaps stuck or missing. |
There's no filter at the moment as I just used a piece of oil line to make a "closed loop" to test.
mark tucker wrote: |
hmm is the pump drilled for the maxie in&out cover? was the pump pluged? I never fill the pump with greessee oil should do fine. but be sure the case is full and the emgine/car isant nose down. the oil in the cam chamber helps keep the pump from sucking air around the case/pump interfearance clearance fit. also is the relief valve in corectly? is the spring in there? can you blow through the oil pressure port and it come out the oil pump?
if the pump is pumping and there is a blockage like a pluged pump body or not a in/out pump you can damage the cam/oil pump drive/slot. so figer it out. |
So the case was drilled, tapped and plugged and also the MaxiPump 5 does not have an outlet as it comes - so there should be no way for any leakage. I'll make sure the car is nose down and see if that helps?
yamaducci wrote: |
Sounds like you got the matching parts.The plunger being seated means it goes all the way down the bore freely and seals off the port positively. The thing is with those aftermarket plungers is they are not usually perfectly flat and need to be polished flat. Also if it's an old case the case can get chatter marks in the seat over the hears and those marks cause leakage and lower oil pressure. Just something to consider.
In my build thread I show how to work on the relief port/plunger. |
I'll check the plunger if all else fails. Thanks for the help!! _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Ok so you have it coming out the surface of the pump and into the case right?
Probably this one:
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!
Last edited by Danwvw on Fri May 13, 2016 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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And you blocked off the original case feed so it can't leak right?
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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stan_tichomirov Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 1719 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Start with simple stuff. Does oil come out of "out" port of pump cover? If it does, and you plumb that directly to the "in" fitting on the case, if you remove the pressure sender and crank is there oil coming out of pressure sender hole?
Stan _________________ Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3444 Location: Garage
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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It can only be two things from what youve said, blockage or relief spring-plunger problem. You have oil coming out so pump is primed and you dont need the case side capped. If your pump leaks that bad your gonna have suction problems too. |
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porkchop-rob Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 440
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Pull the tin, pulley, exhaust, and pump. something doesn't add up. _________________ 1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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AggieZig Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: Re: No oil pressure... what gives? (New Rebuild) |
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Played a little yesterday - I blew air through the case inlet and it flowed free out of the oil sender - no case blockage.
I pulled off the temp sender / relief plug and removed the spring - lots and lots of oil poured out. I went looking for my plunger remover tool and seemed to have misplaced it... fun stuff.
I'm thinking it has to be that the plunger is seating too far down and causing oil to immediately bypass the cooler / sending unit route?
I'll know more / post an update when I get a chance to head back into the garage and find my removal tool. _________________ Zig, Aircooled Enthusiast
Current: Porsche 914 Resto | 1969 VW Beetle
Past: 74 Thing | Sand Rail | Baja Project | Oval Beetle |
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