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Dangermouse Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: Beautiful New Zealand
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Me? I'm more concerned about too much fuel pressure overpowering the needle valves rather than too little, which is why there's a pressure regulator included in the mix. Doesn't seem to run out of gas at wot so don't think insufficient fuel pressure's a contributor. _________________ Do not follow me, for I may not lead. Do not lead me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either; actually just bugger off and stand over there will you. |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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John, I just bought a bug that has 1776cc dual 40 IDF currently has F7 emulsion tubes, 50/135/175 I need to order a few things from you, I'm thinking I need to change to F11 emulsion tubes should I change jets too? A/F going in soon need to have o2 sensor bung welded in this week. It's in Vegas 2000-3000ft elevation in a 65 convertible bug. Also thinking of getting an SVDA distributor ditch the 009, do they make a Pertronix unit for it, and will it work with Spanish made 40 IDF? _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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what venturis?
71sbeetle wrote: |
John, I just bought a bug that has 1776cc dual 40 IDF currently has F7 emulsion tubes, 50/135/175 I need to order a few things from you, I'm thinking I need to change to F11 emulsion tubes should I change jets too? A/F going in soon need to have o2 sensor bung welded in this week. It's in Vegas 2000-3000ft elevation in a 65 convertible bug. Also thinking of getting an SVDA distributor ditch the 009, do they make a Pertronix unit for it, and will it work with Spanish made 40 IDF? |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I was afraid you'd ask, I just pulled one carb off and trying to get the secondary vent out it won't budge, let me try again and I'll get back to you asap
[email protected] wrote: |
what venturis?
71sbeetle wrote: |
John, I just bought a bug that has 1776cc dual 40 IDF currently has F7 emulsion tubes, 50/135/175 I need to order a few things from you, I'm thinking I need to change to F11 emulsion tubes should I change jets too? A/F going in soon need to have o2 sensor bung welded in this week. It's in Vegas 2000-3000ft elevation in a 65 convertible bug. Also thinking of getting an SVDA distributor ditch the 009, do they make a Pertronix unit for it, and will it work with Spanish made 40 IDF? |
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_________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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32 and 4.5 _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Oh and floats were set at ~4-5 and 20, reset them to 10.5 and 32 but then I can't remember if that's supposed to be with or without gasket in place. The gasket was missing a chunk (yes .....) so I have a set in my cart too _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Begin tuning with
F11/47.5/130/220
71sbeetle wrote: |
John, I just bought a bug that has 1776cc dual 40 IDF currently has F7 emulsion tubes, 50/135/175 I need to order a few things from you, I'm thinking I need to change to F11 emulsion tubes should I change jets too? A/F going in soon need to have o2 sensor bung welded in this week. It's in Vegas 2000-3000ft elevation in a 65 convertible bug. Also thinking of getting an SVDA distributor ditch the 009, do they make a Pertronix unit for it, and will it work with Spanish made 40 IDF? |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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OK thanks! Before I place the order, 32mm vents good? I have no clue what the specs of the engine are yet other than it's a 1776cc, waiting on engine builder to get back to me hopefully he remembers lol
[email protected] wrote: |
Begin tuning with
F11/47.5/130/220
71sbeetle wrote: |
John, I just bought a bug that has 1776cc dual 40 IDF currently has F7 emulsion tubes, 50/135/175 I need to order a few things from you, I'm thinking I need to change to F11 emulsion tubes should I change jets too? A/F going in soon need to have o2 sensor bung welded in this week. It's in Vegas 2000-3000ft elevation in a 65 convertible bug. Also thinking of getting an SVDA distributor ditch the 009, do they make a Pertronix unit for it, and will it work with Spanish made 40 IDF? |
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_________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6182
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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just to throw a 13mm wrench in the mix.. (not arguing with john here, he has help me A LOT)
my 1776 with dual IDFs has a WAY more ideal A/F across the board with F7's than with F11's
1776
stock heads/valves
110 cam
019 distributor
40 IDF
28 vent
47.5 idle
120 main
200 air
F7 tubes
still a little bit FAT on the idle circuit cruising around town in 2nd and low speed 3rd.
progression from idle all the way through to WOT is 12.9-13.2
I tried MANY different jet combinations with the F11's and could NOT get it to run right.
BUT like john said, try with F11's first and see what you can come up with. make sure you back off your accelerator pump so it provides little to no additional fuel. _________________ drive your split. |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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sled wrote: |
just to throw a 13mm wrench in the mix.. (not arguing with john here, he has help me A LOT)
my 1776 with dual IDFs has a WAY more ideal A/F across the board with F7's than with F11's
1776
stock heads/valves
110 cam
019 distributor
40 IDF
28 vent
47.5 idle
120 main
200 air
F7 tubes
still a little bit FAT on the idle circuit cruising around town in 2nd and low speed 3rd.
progression from idle all the way through to WOT is 12.9-13.2
I tried MANY different jet combinations with the F11's and could NOT get it to run right.
BUT like john said, try with F11's first and see what you can come up with. make sure you back off your accelerator pump so it provides little to no additional fuel. |
Interesting! Well, I wonder if I can take the F11s from my 2017 and try them out first, it would save me $80 which is not negligible! I need to get that 02 sensor bung welded in there too, single quietpack muffler and header, not sure where I would put it _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6182
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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yes, don't bother doing anything until you have the wideband set up.
bung goes in the collector before the muffler. _________________ drive your split. |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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sled wrote: |
yes, don't bother doing anything until you have the wideband set up.
bung goes in the collector before the muffler. |
Well I just saw ACN has an adapter that goes between header and muffler so looks like I'm spending $30 more lol, up to almost $400 ouch! _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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rbp Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2011 Posts: 70 Location: Ottawa Canada
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Ok, installed the .50 and here is the results. I have the timing at 12 BTDC to be sure I am only on the idle circuit when setting for LBI.
With the 50's I'm at 1.5 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm low to mid 14, 3rd gear 2500 low to mid 14's. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm mid 14's and at 3000 rpm mid to low 14. Idles at high 11's.
Idles at high 11's.
With .52's I'm at 1.25 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm approx 13.5, 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx. 13. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx 13 and at 3000 rpm 12.5. Idles at high 11's.
Based on this I'm thinking I need to stay on the .52's and move onto mains. Any thoughts? |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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rbp wrote: |
Ok, installed the .50 and here is the results. I have the timing at 12 BTDC to be sure I am only on the idle circuit when setting for LBI.
With the 50's I'm at 1.5 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm low to mid 14, 3rd gear 2500 low to mid 14's. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm mid 14's and at 3000 rpm mid to low 14. Idles at high 11's.
Idles at high 11's.
With .52's I'm at 1.25 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm approx 13.5, 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx. 13. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx 13 and at 3000 rpm 12.5. Idles at high 11's.
Based on this I'm thinking I need to stay on the .52's and move onto mains. Any thoughts? |
What are you airs and mains? _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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no way to answer without knowing what distributor you are using. But 11s at idle is a problem, you need to sort that out first.
rbp wrote: |
Ok, installed the .50 and here is the results. I have the timing at 12 BTDC to be sure I am only on the idle circuit when setting for LBI.
With the 50's I'm at 1.5 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm low to mid 14, 3rd gear 2500 low to mid 14's. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm mid 14's and at 3000 rpm mid to low 14. Idles at high 11's.
Idles at high 11's.
With .52's I'm at 1.25 turns on the mixture screws. At low load cruise, 2nd gear at 2500 rpm approx 13.5, 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx. 13. In 3rd gear 2500 rpm approx 13 and at 3000 rpm 12.5. Idles at high 11's.
Based on this I'm thinking I need to stay on the .52's and move onto mains. Any thoughts? |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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rbp Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2011 Posts: 70 Location: Ottawa Canada
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I am just continuing my testing from above or previous page.
I have the Mallory unilite with orange springs for centrifugal advance only.
There are no mains or AC, stacks are pulled.
I don't understand how the idle can be at the numbers it is. The carbs are new, I checked the floats they are all set as expected. The only places fuel can get into the intake manifold is from the choke, the main stacks or the idle circuit. The chock block offs were installed by RedLine, the carbs are new, the stacks are pulled. The idle circuit is in play and each cylinder will die if you turn the screw in. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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choke block offs are just covers. The pistons can still be stuck up. That's why guys tap and pin them down with a set screw. Or JB Weld the circuit at the bottom.
You can also get fuel from
a loose idle mixture screw seat
pump squirt (flutter)
cracked carb body (or porosity)
clogged idle air bleed
rbp wrote: |
I am just continuing my testing from above or previous page.
I have the Mallory unilite with orange springs for centrifugal advance only.
There are no mains or AC, stacks are pulled.
I don't understand how the idle can be at the numbers it is. The carbs are new, I checked the floats they are all set as expected. The only places fuel can get into the intake manifold is from the choke, the main stacks or the idle circuit. The chock block offs were installed by RedLine, the carbs are new, the stacks are pulled. The idle circuit is in play and each cylinder will die if you turn the screw in. |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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71sbeetle Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1334 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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I triple checked everything on my 2017 and no extra fuel I can see from anywhere. My idle at LBI is around 11.2-11.5 no matter what I do. _________________ Alte Schule Vintage and Performance VW club
www.gareymartin.com
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rbp Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2011 Posts: 70 Location: Ottawa Canada
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Well, as I mentioned, the carbs are new. But just to be sure I have checked everything again, the seats in the idle mixture screw socket are nice and snug, the air bypass screw is full closed and the nut is locked in that position. There are no pistons or other mechanical devices behind the chock blank off plates. At least nothing I can see. My old webers had a spring loaded brass cylinder type thing that moved up and down, the new ones do not. I thought that since Red Line blanked them off they should be ok. I don't see any cracks in the carbs or fuel leaking in from the pump circuit. Guess I will have to live with high 11's at idle as everything else seems fine. |
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the2ndcashboy Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2007 Posts: 827 Location: Houston
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Wideband Results |
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Your richness at LBI is probably related to the 12 degree idle timing. If you'll recall, you were in the 12's with the timing at 10. You went the wrong direction. Back it down to 8 and see what happens. _________________
SRP1 wrote: |
You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
modok wrote: |
If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
Last edited by the2ndcashboy on Fri May 06, 2016 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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