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Pirulero1986 Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2014 Posts: 50 Location: Italy
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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i'm looking for expert of vintage speed themed bub for my 1961 convertible i'm working on
engine will be the next step now i'm looking for interior and external accessories to create a great sport look
i'm planning to use a empi coach steering wheel . it's 1961 period correct ?
for the exterior i'm planning to use:
metal grilles for headlight ( the big ones )
rear 3rd stop light ( will be used for omologation in italy for the side indicators)
2x foglights
mudflaps
front and rear chrome guards.
any other suggestion?
thanks
michele |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Porsche 356 wheels.
Michelin XAS tires.
Cheers,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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Komissar Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 894 Location: Bucharest, Romania
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:11 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Porsche wheels would be indeed an option. Or maybe taking some stock wide-5 wheels and finding a machine shop to drill holes in them.
Besides that, i am afraid to say that most of the things you mentioned in the original post is not vintage speed, but vintage bling, except the foglights and wire mesh headlamp guards which could have some "vintage racing" justification.
Vintage speed is all about period correct performance modifications - and this includes both improved engines (dual carb setups and other technical mods done to the engine), improved brakes and suspension and going lightweight.
Regarding the lightweight approach any unnecessary ornaments would been removed. Chromed fender guards do not serve this purpose.
Further more, a set of vintage speed mods might include discarding the hubcaps, omitting the chromed middle line ornaments, and discarding any interior/exterior fittings that are not absolutely necessary.
However, It is clear that your 61 convertible is not a racing car anymore, therefore all those functional mods are no longer necessary plus it would be insane do discard anything from the original car.
With this in mind though, think that a quality vintage speed "conversion" must have this ethos: period correct, performance oriented, lightweight and practical.
Among the things you could do:
- practical headlight mods, as you mentioned
- as said above, Porsche 356 wheels or drilled stock wheels
- porsche 356 brakes or Maico brakes
- okrasa kit, or period correct dual carb or supercharger, and/or a porsche 356 fram oil filter,
- period correct vintage speed ehaust
- maybe a camber compensator
- a period correct rev counter (VDO or other brand) mounted on the steering column
Good luck _________________ 1965 Sunroof Beetle
1972 Type 3 Squareback
1978 Skoda 105S |
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Pirulero1986 Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2014 Posts: 50 Location: Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:42 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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i the engine i have plan a 1385 single carb setup or study to do a empi stroker x300 replica
fram oil filter i think is necessary also for a normal use of the car
i have a 356 engine in garage but i don't want to cut the rear of my bug and
in the past i have a 1776 engined ragtop and with the standard transmission was only a waste of money... good accelleration but top speed was more or less the same and fuel economy just crazy
i have a camber compensator and i think i will install also a front stronger bar
i have also the reinforcement for the fronte axle used on police cars for example |
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Komissar Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 894 Location: Bucharest, Romania
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:36 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Hello,
A 356 engine would be the "ultimate" vintage speed mod done to a VW Beetle. It should fit inside the engine bay of the beetle without cutting anything from the car. Here is a picture from the internet: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s...56ob52.jpg
and another one
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/449074.jpg
Maybe you will have to modify the rear sheet metal of the engine, but that's it.
Interesting comment though regarding the 1776 - with a standard transmission it's to be be expected that the only gain is acceleration (and perhaps pulling power = torque - good when you climb an alpine road or when you have the driver plus 4 people in the car i guess )
With your current engine you should maybe consider dual carb. A good dual carb kit such as the Riechert might even get you better fuel consumption (if you resist the tentation of driving it hard, of course ) .
The ideea behind the dual carb is that multiple fuel delivery points enable a shorter and straighter path to the heads (two short and relatively straight manifolds VS a long one with a lot of turns), thus improving efficiency , and improved efficiency means more power and also less fuel consumed to achieve that power. It a bit similar to fuel injection: multipoint injection is better than singlepoint.
As an inspiration, here is a very cool Vintage Speed beetle. Besides the engine (which of course is a very expensive collectible unit) it's interesting to see what they have done to lower the overall weight of the car (
Quote: |
fenders, door skins, engine lid, front trunk lid, running boards and bumpers
are all aluminum. |
) plus it has some very nice seats in my opinion.
http://revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1956-volkswagen-beetle/
Also, if you consider parting out with originality , Vintage Speed Taiwan has some very nice accesories such as shifters and exhausts .
http://www.vintagespeed.com.tw/ - they are modern, but made in a period correct look and of excellent quality. I have the Black Mamba shifter and it's a joy to drive.
Regarding the oil filter: the Fram (Porsche style oil filter) is mostly for looks. It looks great, that's for sure and is period correct, however, it's filtration is mediocre, because it's a bypass style (meaning that only some of the oil that is pushed by the oil pump gets filtered via a T coupling at the oil pressure sender ) - in theory it will provide "some" filtration but not nearly enough. If you want 100% filtration you need a "full flow system" (search it with google or here on the form) - it is not period correct, but is the best filtration system solution and it can be easily hidden from sight under the engine so nobody will suspect you have one on the car. _________________ 1965 Sunroof Beetle
1972 Type 3 Squareback
1978 Skoda 105S |
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Dr. Denzel Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 17 Location: Ohio, U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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I installed a Porsche 1957 356A engine in a 1959 beetle sedan. I had to make a small cut on the right side to clear a corner of the valve cover. If I had made a larger cut, I could have removed the valve cover to set the valves with the engine in the car. I didn't want to make a larger cut, so made the smaller cut. To adjust the valves for cylinders #1 and #2, I had to drop the engine.
I also added 356A front brakes and a 356A transmission with close ratio gears from a wrecked Porsche. I then added Porsche wheels and tires with sticky recaps. The car definitely impressed a few people. So you will know that hot rodding VW's is not a new thing, I'll tell you that I did this in 1963, over 50 years ago.
Jim Perrin |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7229 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:18 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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The 1385 cc displament along with stock 1200 intake and carb is not a good set up. The engine is choked so hard that it falls on its nose at about 3300 rpm.
If you are really into it you can modify the "K" manifold from the stock 13/1500 engine and then make it taper down to the 1200 head intake. That will wake it up and make it run decent.
The right thing to do is installing a set of dual 28 pci or Pict1, or even better 32 mm pci carb.
The cylinderhead itself will be the limiting factor, but then the engine can breathe and make a little extra power. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 719 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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You guys are saying a porsche 356 engine would be the ultimate engine ?????? I think the porsche 4 cam would be ultimate 😯🤔 but only if you have $200,000 just for the engine 😔 I'll say go for the 4 cam engine 🤣😂🤣😪😪😪.....if I where you I'll i go with a 40hp okrasa 1500cc 69x83 or you can go 1600cc 74x83 have the 69mm connecting rods journals turned down to 36hp journals size and use 36hp rods and it gives you a 74mm crank .. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 719 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:11 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Porsche 356 wheels.
Michelin XAS tires.
Cheers,
Paul |
Man I love those dunlop 550L racing tires they look great .. to bad they don't make them street legal tires ..we should ask for a demand and have dunlop make those tires for street use also so that we could have that racing tire look to our vintage speed street cars ...
I bet dunlop would sell a lot of tires if they did because I would buy them if they where street legal tires 👍👍 but that's just a dream ... |
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rzepko6194 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2005 Posts: 829
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:27 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Alstrup wrote: |
The 1385 cc displament along with stock 1200 intake and carb is not a good set up. The engine is choked so hard that it falls on its nose at about 3300 rpm.
If you are really into it you can modify the "K" manifold from the stock 13/1500 engine and then make it taper down to the 1200 head intake. That will wake it up and make it run decent.
The right thing to do is installing a set of dual 28 pci or Pict1, or even better 32 mm pci carb.
The cylinderhead itself will be the limiting factor, but then the engine can breathe and make a little extra power. |
Hello Alstrup, wouldn稚 the carb Venturi be the limiting factor for breathing? I知 currently building a 1397 cc, 36hp engine with a stock cam and plan to run the stock carb and manifold. However, I do plan on increasing the carb Venturi size from 22mm to 24.5 or 25.55. I値l also be bumping the main jet size. Any thoughts you have regarding this build would be appreciated. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76962 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Komissar wrote: |
Hello,
A 356 engine would be the "ultimate" vintage speed mod done to a VW Beetle. |
Actually a Carrera 4 Cam would be.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7229 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:37 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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rzepko6194 wrote: |
Hello Alstrup, wouldn稚 the carb Venturi be the limiting factor for breathing? I知 currently building a 1397 cc, 36hp engine with a stock cam and plan to run the stock carb and manifold. However, I do plan on increasing the carb Venturi size from 22mm to 24.5 or 25.55. I値l also be bumping the main jet size. Any thoughts you have regarding this build would be appreciated. |
It is not the carb/venturi which is the restriction. It is the intake manifold. It is simply not big enough to support much more than the stock 1200 cc.
a simple swap from a 36 hp intake manifold to a 40 hp intake manifold, which is slightly larger I.D. will give you about 4 hp more + a couple of hundred rpm before it chokes.
In general I am all in for stockish look and better performance. But I have found that with the 36 hp (and 40 hp) it really is rather problematic to increase performance that way. There the dual carb solution is the way to go. (Or a dual single, like the NDIX or something like that.)
Last edited by Alstrup on Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rzepko6194 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2005 Posts: 829
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Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:55 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Alstrup, I appreciate the tip about using a 40hp intake manifold over a 36. I知 ok with HP output in the low 40s range, as I don稚 want to go with the additional complexity of dual carbs or with a dual single. |
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Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3685 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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A 1961 would have a 40hp so the 36hp manifold isn't an option. They also had an Okrasa kit available for the 40hp engine as well as the 36hp _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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Robert Chambers Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005 Posts: 216
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Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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A Judson II would be a nice correct 40 horse Vintage Speed option for a simple effective power increase. Every thing bolts right on. The only exception being mounting the oiler requires drilling a couple of holes in the fire wall. _________________ '63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
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rzepko6194 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2005 Posts: 829
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Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:08 am Post subject: Re: How to "vintage speed" a 1961 convertible |
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Robert Chambers wrote: |
A Judson II would be a nice correct 40 horse Vintage Speed option for a simple effective power increase. Every thing bolts right on. The only exception being mounting the oiler requires drilling a couple of holes in the fire wall. |
I appreciate the advice but I知 trying to keep things simple. |
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oldslow Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2019 Posts: 107 Location: Cape Cod
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13958 Location: Southampton U.K.
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oldslow Samba Member
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