912 enigine to beetle gearbox

[bobfalfa5]

i have a deserter buggy with 1200 engine.
gearbox already adapted from 6v flywheel to12.

scooper's thread about 356 engine on a very vintage manx made me feel like pullin out my 912 engine from the bottom of the garage...and seeing what it needs to run on the buggy.

any special flywheel needed?

do the big 912 one will do?

if it is good, what vw clutch could go there ( i cam bet porsche one will cost a small fortune!!!)

plz. don't tell me an upgraded vw based engine would be better.

i want the porsche one....cause it's the coolest!!!!

what starter motor on porsche?

[mpribanic]

One thing to consider is how to hook up the dual carbs.

The Porsche linkage is ball and socket.....VW linkage is cable driven(from front to the rear) I'm sure there are adapters out there but...not for sure. You may need to do a little fab work.

I agree the Porsche would be more coolbut also more $$$ to replace.
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[hugheseum]

i know you said dont tell me to put a vw motor in it,but i have to tell you to put a vw motor in it......now if your really stubborn

-change flywheel to 356 or have 36 hrse flywheel drilled for the special dowels DO NOT forget a new flywheel/crank crush washer

-the tin on the front (flywheel is front) will need to be trimmed or fit 36 hrse,the 2 side tins are easily fabbed,the rear tin will need to be vw something

-the linkage is easycakes,use the stock porsche linkage even the long front (again the flywheel being the front) one,make a barrelnut to slip thru the end of the porsche linkage end and fit your beetle cable thru it as well

-the fuel line is different sized but that why the cheap vw fuel filters have 2 sizes integrated

lastly dont cut your beetle accelerator cable,just loop it,that way when you realize just how much it costs to properly tune and maintain the porsche motor,or worse yet you blow it or burn a cylinder at least you can refit your beetle motor again



put a vw motor in it,you will later anyways...sorry
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Have a great day!

[towd]

[bobfalfa5]

towd, you ask too much...
i sold cars spare parts for job for years....

you don't know how difficult is to get an answer on what is left or right hand in a car!!!!! every time you have to explain!!!!

hugheseum, thank you for very nice, techinical, and precise answer...

but... i would be glad, if u could explain me another thing please since you are so kind and expert:

why should be that porsche engine that devil all the people say?
i'm not a porsche owner but i don't think that porsche 356 or 912s blow a piston every 10.000 miles? isn't it?
and again: i'm not using it for racing..but they were sportscar...for racing use too.....they won a lot i think...
and so: why 912 shouldn't be reliable on my buggy, that weights 1000lbs and couldn't be driven over 70 mph?
what are the weak points on that engine?
what are things u shouldn't do to it when you drive?
i'm not goin to overrev it or makin no oil change, no valve setting etc...
i know it is expensive to rebuild...obviously...but what is the reason why i should think that won't last so much after a fully professional rebuild?

[bobfalfa5]

i had this porsche engine for nothing or so...
apart from fact i love the STRICTLY VINTAGE porsche dune buggies, i thought this:
-if i do a 100 hp volkswagen engine i have to start from zero....cause i have no parts. i will spend less than on rebuilding porsche one maybe, but once it will be finished i will have the same vw of the rest of the people...and then, 100 hp vw is not stock...or...not stockly reliable.

if i rebuild the porsche, im doing a stock engine with 100 hp. made from factory as it is. and then i won't throw away my money, i thought, cause if one day i will need money for a death or life matter, a used tuned vw engine will be near to zero value..and the porsche...i hope will keep value...

what is the failing part of speech in your opinion?

[hugheseum]

cool,thanks for not taking offense,i have done the 356/912 engine in a vw and i was a porsche/vw service mech for 7 yrs (about 6-7 yrs ago now) and i even refitted a vw motor on each occasion.

-first thing to consider is what exactly the engine is goin in,is it a airtightish cabin like a porsche/vw? if its not you will be running too hot aka baja bug style,the engines only stay together when they have the proper airflow/heat deflection

-what kind of air vents does your buggy have? it needs to have enough air to feed the 2 double barrel carbs AND most importantly the air to the fan,this is why alot of porsche/vw swaps burn pistons,not enough air

-do not ever drop the clutch aka try and burn out from a stoplight,the 912s especially broke cranks from exactly this

-the engine while having 4 oppossed cylinders is a completely different animal than vw,there are a great many irreversable donts that a vw builder can and will do while building it........do not take your engine to a vw shop and for godsake take the machine work to a porsche specific machinist,the others will destroy very expensive parts

-rebuilding the engine will end up costing you at a bare minumum $3000,but have $5-$10k just in case cause and you often need it

-what yr engine? 912s had good yrs and not so sweet yrs/changes

-if you have everything together right you should be able to do 90mph no problem,and of course NEVER EVER lug a 356/912 motor,they was made fer spinnin
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Have a great day!

[hugheseum]

hey what about a balanced dual carbed stock 1600? maybe with 36mm double barrel carbs? theres a few of these motors around here and honestly they do very well,they kinda look porsche too
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Have a great day!

[bobfalfa5]

HEY HUGESEUME!!!!
know what we say in italy? "innocence is just in watcher's eyes"...and...about cars...i am not so innocent...you know.... .

not so innocent to run a double carb vw and think to have a porsche!!
and when i have a woman in my bed...well..i can recognize the rear from the front

at 32 i am a little man

porsche powered volkswagen dune buggies are a fact.....a matter of history.. they were good race cars. from baja 1000 to pikes peak....they were important.... and winning....in 1968 bug-in meeting a porsche manx buggy took away slalom race victory from a porsche 911!!!!!

if price to pay for your precious informations is taking more and more offenses.....i will pay it.....because u were so helpful man!!!!!

i love u!!!! u are the only one givin me precise answers on this argument.


porsche engine will go on this:

that is a strictly vintage dune buggy that i detailed on seven years work to the last bolt. nothin here, not a rivet is different from its birth period.

i hope u will like it.

as you can see rear is completely open and there is a good space behind the fan. think it is near to run the engine open air!!!! so we have first condition u told.

when i told 70 mph, i told for drivetrain lightness..not referring to power

when u say made for spinning how much rpm you refer? 3000 constant is enough to get air? will have problem idling in traffic for small pulley?

solex 40 PII are to swap with webers 40 idf as someone says?

do u think would be a nice thing using a scat crankshaft to solve weakness problems? know its expensive...but i want to build an engine for life if it's possible

what kinda starter on 356 flywheel?

ty for infos, tht i appreciate u give even more, cause i think to read, between lines, u disapprove what i am doing.....thank you

[bobfalfa5]

saw pics of your workshop huge.. nice place, nice projects,nice octagonal tool to turn bus bodies...i have to build one to weld my 60 combi.(don't worry...no porsche engine there )

[hugheseum]

no worries,i like that you are still up for it even after all my pesimism,shows you got what we yanks call "moxy".

so the air being open and exposed kinda sucks,but maybe to work around it you could run a seperate oil cooler,so that its not too "mickey mouse" use a thermostatic control unit. it would open as temps rose and you could get more trick and run a thermostat sensative fan ala high end off road.
seriously be careful when rebuilding the engine,there are alot of expensive "donts" if you are mechanically savvy maybe you could get "the maestro" dvds,they will be a great help.
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Have a great day!

[towd]

In the 60's I could tell people this is the front of the engine,, and point to the pulley, belts, etc,, Now days even on here they will argue. I also worked for VW. Porsche then Audi came in..

This all ended for me in 73 and in a 356... The damn thing just didn't want to slow down. This was on a track going into a left corner,, it went up over the bank hit a steel pole,,putting the left front wheel in the drivers seat with me in it... 3 years later I could walk, about 8 years later I could walk like most people..

anyway.. in the 70's and late 60's,, around here there were a few with buggies with 356 engines ,, I can think of one with a 911 bolted to a bus reduction box LOL..

The ol boy that got me into turbo's ran a F/G buggy with a turbo 356 ... The guy always had a smile on his face,, as we ran in the rain,, cold as hell .. he would pull up open his door.. turn down the music and just smile... ... Never knew why till I turned 50 ..

In 69 my 64 bug blew a motor.. so off to the junk yard,, He had a line of motors,, Hey i want the one with the silver fan housing ..
Off we go ,,, little did he know he just sold me a 356, thinking it was a vw,,, better yet it was a 356 industrial, single zenith,, by the numbers this one was rated at 90 hp

VIA a BFH ,, ol 356 fit the bug .. Hot damn and off we go.. time to curse the gut and find one of those damn gto's .. stop light to stop light,, guess who won,, running 5'60 x 15's turned around... well it didn't take long to break the crank

About 10 year ago I bought this dragster maybe longer ?? ... I used it but the frame is no longer legal...

The engine is based off a 59N case, but it dyno's at 170 hp .. The plan was to use the engine in a dune buggy.. I decided it was to much a value to take a chance on blowing it up in the dunes.

The owner and builder of the car,, had the motor rebuilt then stored the car.. so it's never really been raced since the last rebuild , which was in about 73 ... I did chase down the engine builder and talk to him..
I've put this motor up for sale at $2500 .. all I get ask is " is it an aluminum case " LOL ya ok
Most people don't understand the difference between a VW and a 356 engine,,,, often the porsche guy have no Idea,, what the heads are.. The 356 was the first production hemi head..

[bobfalfa5]

nice stories, nice suggestions, so....nice post. ty guys.

tell me more about the moxy!!!!! u got me curious now

[pupjoint]

guys, i know it is better to stick with a vw motor, but i do have access to a 912 motor for a good price, just wonder if it is worth putting it up , have some fun with it.

what sort of HP are we looking at and how reliable are these 912s?

i will try to put up some pics and also get the engine number later

[DSF]

NOT a good off road motor (the 912). It's happiest spinning high RPMs, and it's completely bummed out in the low RPM's. Too much torque will break a crank... "clutch pop" starts, off road stuff, severe downshifts to 2nd even (less common).

It's a high revving street motor. You could sell whatever 912 setup you have and put in a much "stronger" (in the luggin/clutch popping sense) VW motor that won't cost you 7-10k to rebuild when you eventually do break it.

Leave the Porsche motors for the Porsche's & build a lower revving, higher torque, VW based motor.

With a Porsche oil breather & dual carbs, you can hardly tell the difference-- both use a VW fan housing...