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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:12 pm Post subject: Some electrical issues |
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The Buggy is up and running again but some electrical issues have reared their ugly heads.
First and most important is the I have lost the charge indicator light in the speedometer. Without it the alternator does not charge. Yes the bulb is good but there is no power to it and there is no power back to the alternator on that wire.
I built a jumper wire with a bulb in series to take it's place but just straight to the battery not all the way up front. The purpose of this was to prove the alternator was viable and it is. With this bulb and wire in place I get 14.4 volts with the engine running and the bulb is lit when it is not.
Somewhere up front I have lost a power source for this circuit. All the fuses look good...
The second problem is the fuel gauge only works part time and when it does it indicates a 1/2 tank when I know the tank is full.
Suggestions please.
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5536
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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With a buggy it is harder to say. Does the oil pressure light work? Are you using the stock Bug speedometer? If you are using a stock speedometer they should both get power from the same wire when the ignition switch is on. Are you using the wiring harness from a Bug, and if so what year Bug? What type of gas gauge are you using? It is so much fun getting your head and hands up behind a buggy dash to work on the wiring. 
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| With a buggy it is harder to say. Does the oil pressure light work? |
Yes
| EVfun wrote: |
| Are you using the stock Bug speedometer? |
Yes
| EVfun wrote: |
| If you are using a stock speedometer they should both get power from the same wire when the ignition switch is on. |
That is what I thought too.
| EVfun wrote: |
| Are you using the wiring harness from a Bug, and if so what year Bug? |
Yes, '73 Standard.
| EVfun wrote: |
| What type of gas gauge are you using? |
The one in the stock speedometer and stock sensor in the tank.
Stock fuse box too. It all worked 2 years ago but something has changed.
| EVfun wrote: |
| It is so much fun getting your head and hands up behind a buggy dash to work on the wiring. |
Herein lies a major issue. These old arthritic body parts just do not do the under dash limbo anymore!
I need to make some sort of an access improvement, removable hood, removable dash... but at this point in the year there are too many other priorities to start on a major redesign. Yard work, house renovations, trips to see grand babies etc. I was hoping to put that off for a next winter project.
I did print off the wiring diagrams on this site but the print is a bit fuzzy and its hard to identify the components.
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20406
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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As for alternator light, start at alternator and trace wire all the way forward, look at each and every splice/connection.... It's simply one bad connection that is causing you grief..... Other solution may be to do complete rewire of buggy if the existing wiring is a butcher job.....Any half assed repairs are just that and will come back to haunt you....
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| As for alternator light, start at alternator and trace wire all the way forward, look at each and every splice/connection.... It's simply one bad connection that is causing you grief..... |
Yes, I have traced it all the way back to the wire that plugs into the bulb socket and it is dead that far. The rest if the story is between there and the fuse box I suspect. I might try and get the speedometer out in the open and see if there is anything to be learned there. Broken connection on the back maybe...
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5536
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Oh, that wire is supposed to be dead — it’s a ground wire. When the car is off it should be at (or near) ground. When the car is running it should have about 14 volts on it if the alternator is charging.
Do you happen to have an LED alternator dash bulb? That does not reliably work for an alternator, but will for a generator.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Stock incandescent bulb.
Why is it then that when I take a wire from the blue wire on the regulator (the indicator bulb wire), solder in a bulb and attach it to the + terminal of the battery the alternator charges as it should and the added bulb acts like the one on the speedometer is supposed to? Power needs to come from somewhere to light up the bulb when the key is on. Then when the alternator starts to charge it back feeds the bulb circuit putting both sides of the bulb at the same potential and the bulb goes out.
Have I got that correct?
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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I might have just found the answer here!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10218658#10218658
Yes the same wire does indeed supply power to both the oil and generator lights so... the problem must be right on the back of the speedometer!
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5536
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| oprn wrote: |
Stock incandescent bulb.
Why is it then that when I take a wire from the blue wire on the regulator (the indicator bulb wire), solder in a bulb and attach it to the + terminal of the battery the alternator charges as it should and the added bulb acts like the one on the speedometer is supposed to? Power needs to come from somewhere to light up the bulb when the key is on. Then when the alternator starts to charge it back feeds the bulb circuit putting both sides of the bulb at the same potential and the bulb goes out.
Have I got that correct? |
You have that correct.
Your test bulb circuit is nearly duplicating what the stock alternator warning light is supposed to do. If you hooked that wire to the positive connection of the coil instead of the positive terminal of the battery the circuit would be exactly how the stock alternator dash light works.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20406
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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ALT lamp circuit is this simple, you just have to apply this simple circuit to you hardware configuration....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Yes, it all used to work I am just trying to find where the circuit got broken and I think now it is right on the back of the speedometer. The oil light works but the charge light does not and they are fed off the same wire on the back of the speedometer.
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5536
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Yes, it all used to work I am just trying to find where the circuit got broken and I think now it is right on the back of the speedometer. The oil light works but the charge light does not and they are fed off the same wire on the back of the speedometer. |
The quick full run check would be to disconnect one end of alternator lamp wire, either end or both ends if it makes this easier. You want to connect a test lead to the terminal at each end of that wire and then connect the test leads to an ohm meter. You should read something very close to zero. Since there is a few connections involved perhaps 1 or even 2 ohms, tops. I suspect you will in fact read something greater than 100 ohms and that would be the problem.
If you do read low ohms then perhaps pull the bulb holder and with a mirror and flashlight get a look inside the back of the speedometer. Though rare, I have seen the metal tab that supplies power to the outside of the bulb holder break off.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Problem solved!
After removing the speedometer to inspect the connections on the back I found on close examination that the bulb holder itself was faulty. There is a fiber disc down inside the bulb holder that locates and isolates the center contact pin for the bulb. This contact pin had pulled through the fiber disc and was no longer touching the center pin on the bulb. On a quick look all looks normal but that contact button was recessed below where it needs to be. I forced the fiber washer back down over the pin and... it all works again!
I expect the pin to slip down again at some point in the future but if handled carefully when I put it back together it should do for a while. I do have a spare speedometer somewhere so when I find it... hopefully there is a spare bulb holder in it.
Like so many electrical problems so simple... once you find it!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20406
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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https://www.westcoastmetric.com/i-22968340-socket-...61-79.html
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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MrGoodtunes
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 857
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Problem solved! ... hopefully there is a spare bulb holder in it ... |
If not, I'll happily send you one of my spares:
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Thanks for the offer and link. I need to take a serious look in the hay shed first.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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Looks like I am not out of the woods yet. In the garage all was working as per plan. Light on, start engine, light goes off and I measure 14.5 volts at the battery. Tried it twice, all good.
Today I took the car for a drive... the light did not go off with the engine running. The battery remained at 12 volts...
ARGGG!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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MrGoodtunes
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Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 857
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| oprn wrote: |
| ... light did not go off with the engine running ... |
Generator (or alternator) brushes? Gen/alt or voltage regulator electrical connections? |
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Bikerndiver
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2023
Posts: 123
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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| oprn wrote: |
Looks like I am not out of the woods yet. In the garage all was working as per plan. Light on, start engine, light goes off and I measure 14.5 volts at the battery. Tried it twice, all good.
Today I took the car for a drive... the light did not go off with the engine running. The battery remained at 12 volts...
ARGGG! |
Probably same issue. The connection just vibrated itself back to where it was. These buggys ride so smooth after all! LOL
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12883
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Some electrical issues |
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No not the same thing because the light is on all the time now. Before it was off all the time. My first thought was that the belt must have broke or come off but it is still there.
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