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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:22 pm Post subject: Clutch engagement window |
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On my Bus (and other cars), once I hit resistance on the clutch, I have about 30 degrees to fully disengage or engage the clutch, but on my Beetle, it's closer to 10 degrees (as soon as I feel resistance I've nearly fully disengaged the clutch). I have .5" of free play on my clutch, but it feels like the entire travel of my clutch pedal is wasted, as all engagement or disengagement happens within .5" after that (and I feel like I must be near breaking something if I push the clutch to the floor).
Is this normal, or am I just overthinking this? _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 6008 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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You are undoubtedly overthinking it, but...
The engagement window as you describe it is mostly a function of the type & manufacturer of the pressure plate. Not much you can do about it.
One thing you can check is to make sure that the Bowden tube for the clutch cable has the appropriate amount of bend in it as shown in the Bentley manual. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
You are undoubtedly overthinking it, but...
The engagement window as you describe it is mostly a function of the type & manufacturer of the pressure plate. Not much you can do about it.
One thing you can check is to make sure that the Bowden tube for the clutch cable has the appropriate amount of bend in it as shown in the Bentley manual. |
I'm using a stock pressure plate (OEM), and it feels like the engagement window is much shorter than before I replaced the acceleration cable. I'll check on the bowden tube - would that impact the engagement window?
What is the clutch engagement window for you? _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17302 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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You're not overthinking it. There's lots you can do about it.
What year is the car? What type of clutch is in it? (Coil spring type, or diaphragm spring type?) Can you post a pic of the lever arm on the trans? _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
What is the clutch engagement window for you? |
I was driving my bug this afternoon and took notice of this after reading your post. The 'window' is actually quite small...maybe 3/4" or so of pedal travel. I never gave it much thought...it's always been like this (diaphragm p/p with all new clutch components...everything properly adjusted). _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13858 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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Never gave it much thought at all...Mine works to engage and disengage. To me I really do not care if is it a half or three quarter or even a inch. As long ast it works. I do pefer the non spring type clutch disc, it has eight rivits instead of three to transfer power. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31470 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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I have 5 vehicles with manual transmissions that I drive, two are VWs. The clutch pedal operation in ALL of them are a little different !!!
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 6008 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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I've found that if you have insufficient bend in the Bowden tube, it can make the clutch action feel more like an on/off switch which I think is the problem you're describing. It's definitely something worth checking and is easy to modify.
Easy compared to say, replacing the pressure plate, which of course requires an engine pull. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3850 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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Since we’re sharing, I’ll tell you that in my Ghia, my window is the opposite.
Depressing the pedal maybe 2” is enough to release enough for the clutch to slip however, the clutch starts to engage about an inch off the floor. So I have quite a few inches of travel for the whole process.
Full disclosure, I have a Kennedy Stage 1 pressure plate, dual friction disc and KoolRydes custom pedal assembly.
But I’m with the guy that said who cares, as long as it works. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26354 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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[quote="harrymarlin"]
sjbartnik wrote: |
I'm using a stock pressure plate (OEM), and it feels like the engagement window is much shorter than before I replaced the acceleration cable. I'll check on the bowden tube - would that impact the engagement window?
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Do you mean you have a 6 spring clutch then. THAT was stock. The OEM manufacturer no longer makes them, they now make a diaphragm clutch pressure plate... and I never liked them 180mm compared to the 6 spring, much for the same reason you are talking about. I went out of my way to get 6 spring clutch pressure plates over the 25 years I drove my 62 Bug. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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[quote="glutamodo"]
harrymarlin wrote: |
sjbartnik wrote: |
I'm using a stock pressure plate (OEM), and it feels like the engagement window is much shorter than before I replaced the acceleration cable. I'll check on the bowden tube - would that impact the engagement window?
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Do you mean you have a 6 spring clutch then. THAT was stock. The OEM manufacturer no longer makes them, they now make a diaphragm clutch pressure plate... and I never liked them 180mm compared to the 6 spring, much for the same reason you are talking about. I went out of my way to get 6 spring clutch pressure plates over the 25 years I drove my 62 Bug. |
Yes, the spring pressure plate. I found a NOS one. _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
I've found that if you have insufficient bend in the Bowden tube, it can make the clutch action feel more like an on/off switch which I think is the problem you're describing. It's definitely something worth checking and is easy to modify.
Easy compared to say, replacing the pressure plate, which of course requires an engine pull. |
How can I tell if the bowden tube has sufficient bend? It *looks* right to me?
_________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
How can I tell if the bowden tube has sufficient bend? It *looks* right to me? |
The 'sag' in the Bowden tube should be between 3/4" to 1 1/4". Hard to tell from the wide-angle photo if you're in the ballpark or not. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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rcooled wrote: |
harrymarlin wrote: |
How can I tell if the bowden tube has sufficient bend? It *looks* right to me? |
The 'sag' in the Bowden tube should be between 3/4" to 1 1/4". Hard to tell from the wide-angle photo if you're in the ballpark or not. |
It looks like there are some hard points to connect to, so if the Bowden tube is the right length, I do not have control over the ‘sag’, correct? _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
[I do not have control over the ‘sag’, correct? |
You can increase the amount of 'sag' by adding washers at the point where the Bowden tube enters the mounting bracket on the transmission.
It's much easier to pull the Bowden tube out of that bracket to add some washers if you first pull the cable back out of the tube from the pedal end. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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harrymarlin Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2018 Posts: 735 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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rcooled wrote: |
The 'sag' in the Bowden tube should be between 3/4" to 1 1/4". Hard to tell from the wide-angle photo if you're in the ballpark or not. |
What is a method to measure the sag? _________________ -Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2527 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch engagement window |
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harrymarlin wrote: |
What is a method to measure the sag? |
Lay a straightedge from one end to the other, then measure the offset where it shows most.
A PO used these ↓ to add some 'sag' to my Bug's Bowden tube without removing it from the bracket.
_________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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