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Kolbys66 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Dundee, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:11 am Post subject: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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My son bought this car when he was 10 years old. Will be 16 in a few months. Hoping it will be done before his birthday. My son is an old soul who wants the car completely factory. Only upgrades will be 12 volt, 1500cc motor and 4 wheel disc brake conversion. Advice on making improvements to the safety of the car?
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3885 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Wow, awesome. I 'spect you already have it covered, but dual-circuit master cylinder. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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Kolbys66 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Dundee, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:40 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Thank you, I will verify that is on the endless list of parts needed still. 😀 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9832 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:55 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Nice start, hopefully it'll get done before his birthday.
Curious, who did the body work on the car. Not many locally want to tackle a bug. The shop complaints are "too many curves." _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2523 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:18 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Kolbys66 wrote: |
Advice on making improvements to the safety of the car?
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Wow, great job so far. And that's quite the impressive painting facility you have there as well.
A teenager having an old VW as a first car/daily driver has been discussed here before. It has to be acknowledged that these cars are inherently unsafe by modern standards and little can be done to bring them even close to the levels of safety found in even the cheapest modern car built in the last couple of decades. That being said, maybe your son can use this car as a weekend cruiser instead of his everyday car. The way it's looking, this beauty would be right at home at local car shows or cars & coffee meetups.
Some years ago, there was a long thread on here about a father/daughter resto project very similar to yours. The two of them worked long & hard to restore a '64 Beetle as her first car and it turned out beautifully. Much to the father's disappointment, when the car was finally completed, the daughter no longer wanted it. Not because she didn't like it, but because none of her friend's parents would let them ride with her in the VW due to concerns about safety. That was an instant deal breaker for the daughter. Maybe something to consider... _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Kolbys66 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Dundee, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:32 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
Nice start, hopefully it'll get done before his birthday.
Curious, who did the body work on the car. Not many locally want to tackle a bug. The shop complaints are "too many curves." |
Classic car restoration in Harrisburg. His name is Richard Morton and he is insanely talented. He knows these bugs inside and out. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5524 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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You might consider high backs seats and/or shoulder belts. Unfortunately headrests would eliminate stock looking front seats (stock ‘68 to early ‘70’s seats could be used). Shoulder belts should keep heads off the windshield in a frontal accident. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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cricketseed Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 115 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:51 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Safety: Drive as if you're riding a motorcycle. You're not quite that vulnerable, but as others have pointed out, by modern standards these cars are far from safe. _________________ '66 Beetle |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 77053 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:55 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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rear disc are a waste, stick with drums.
Go 1600SP, no one will be able to the the difference between a 1500 and 1600. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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bcferrini Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2023 Posts: 62 Location: S F Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:41 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Collapsible steering column?
There was a very detailed thread here recently covering this.
That said, not that safe a car. My 1st car was a '61 Bug. My only car for 4 years. But in 1969, things on the roads were a bit different. I survived it somehow, as did millions of other.
Now our '67 and '79 only get occasional club tours or coffee shows. _________________ " I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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pastellgreen Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012 Posts: 1053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:23 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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cricketseed wrote: |
Safety: Drive as if you're riding a motorcycle. You're not quite that vulnerable, but as others have pointed out, by modern standards these cars are far from safe. |
This is the right thinking! |
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Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1444
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Add a Chenowth style "Class 11" roll cage kit. Add four extra tubes to tie the front beam to the cage and to protect the footbox.
Then drive like you're riding a motorcycle.
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5524 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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One simple thing to help with safety — make sure you have an inflated spare tire in front of the gas tank. That helps absorb and spread a frontal impact. For a design that originated in 1939 these were reasonably safe. That means by today’s standards they are very vulnerable!
That said, my first car was a 1960 Bug, with small dim lights and no seat belts. I survived. I kept buying and driving old Bugs. I still have my Mini-T beach buggy. That is less safe than a Bug. Driving defensively should always be first on your mind when driving any car. Drive attentively, watch everyone around you, and anticipate the most stupid move they could make.
Shoulder belts would be a good upgrade to keep front seat occupants off the steel dashboard and windshield in the event of an accident. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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theastronaut Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 1631 Location: Anderson, SC
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Doing a few autocross events with a driving instructor on board to learn car control and how to push the car to its limits in a save environment will be a huge help in driving defensively on the street. Knowing how to swerve and get the most out of the brakes without locking them up can be the difference between a crash and making a calculated maneuver to avoid contact with idiot drivers. Making a few mods to the suspension so the car is more tossable and controllable will increase safety- a camber compensator and bigger front sway bar will make a swingaxle bug much safer and easier to handle near the limit of grip. I know yall want it to be factory, but vintage rally style mods will not detract from the car and will make it a lot safer to drive.
Do not add a roll cage unless you're also adding a containment seat, helmet, and hans device. A roll cage on the street is really dangerous- it will turn a minor fender bender into major head trauma or death, even if it's padded. I have friends with friends that died in very light crashes because of head trauma due to hitting their head on a roll cage.
Watch dash cam crash vids on youtube to learn how to spot the common ways other people have wrecks. 90% of the wrecks in those vids are avoidable if the cam car was paying attention- use their vids to look for the warning signs/"body language" of the surrounding cars so you can spot potential accidents on the road. Paying attention to avoid a possible crash is the best way to avoid a crash- an early reaction along with knowing car control will keep you out of 90% of the wrecks on those youtube vids.
Disc brakes do not stop the car better compared to good working drums, tires with better grip stop the car shorter. Practicing stopping as hard as possible without locking up the tires and skidding is a very important skill to learn in a car without abs- it doesn't think for you, you have to do that. Autocrossing is a good way to learn this, or on an abandoned/empty road. Practice this often to develop muscle memory, you want to be able to avoid lockup as second nature so you don't panic and stomp the pedal as hard as possible in an emergency. _________________ Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce
'64 Beetle Sunroof OG Bahama Blue
'63 Beetle Vert
'66 Beetle
'88 Festiva L
'89 Festiva L
'64 Chevy C10
'66 Chevy C10 |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1645
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Dual circuit master brake cylinder and associated reservoir and piping give a huge safety improvement over the stock single circuit system.
A collapsable steering column is another big safety future that can be easily and discretely added, there are threads on the Samba on how this is done.
Three point seat belts are another huge safety upgrade.
High mount brake light(s) inside the rear window will greatly reduce the risk of being rear ended, as will be the addition of bright LED light bulbs for better visibility, seeing and being seen. Also the upgrade to a pedal arm activated brake light switch rather than the stock pressure switch will help as it allows the brake lights to come on sooner, as soon as the pedal is slightly depressed, rather than until after the brake pressure has built up. this can give a good extra margin in warning other driver you are stopping, amounting to several car lengths of extra stopping distance for the driver behind your Bug.
Good quality new radial tires give you an edge in stopping, and handling to avoid crashes verses old, worn or bias ply tires.
There might be accessory head rests from that 1960's era that can help prevent whiplash, low back seats are dangerous in that regard. or install later high back seats. I know Porche had head rests as an accessory back for the old 356 cars. maybe an aftermarket unit?
Of course extensive defensive driver training is of upmost importance. Dont tail gate, dont speed, slow down a lot in wet conditions, low visibility conditions, dont get distracted, and have situational awareness. keep large distances between your Bug and other cars. Dont drive drunk or stoned! Stay off the roads when the bars close in the wee early hours of the morning. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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Coreymillia42 Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2023 Posts: 32 Location: Victor Colorado
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Nice job. I just got a '66 that is all stock. I don't really plan on driving it much.
Apparently the 1300 is one of the things that is still a big deal about the car.
So, since he is putting a 1500 in it and probably plans on driving it regularly, it would not hurt to put an electronic distributor. Saves from breaking down changing points on the side of the road. I also upgraded my other bug with dual carbs. While it may not sound like a safety feature, I feel a lot better going up hills.
Plus, always carry a fire extinguisher. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle. Owned 25 years... And now the owner of a 1966 Beetle. Plus, a 1967 bus that doesn't run. |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2523 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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Coreymillia42 wrote: |
...it would not hurt to put an electronic distributor. Saves from breaking down changing points on the side of the road. |
Those modules that replace the points are known to sometimes just quit for no reason and WILL leave you stranded. If it was the points that put you on the side of the road, they can always be cleaned up a bit and re-gapped in a pinch to get you back up & running.
Quote: |
Plus, always carry a fire extinguisher. |
A very good idea... _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4098
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:36 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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rcooled wrote: |
Coreymillia42 wrote: |
...it would not hurt to put an electronic distributor. Saves from breaking down changing points on the side of the road. |
Those modules that replace the points are known to sometimes just quit for no reason and WILL leave you stranded. If it was the points that put you on the side of the road, they can always be cleaned up a bit and re-gapped in a pinch to get you back up & running.
Quote: |
Plus, always carry a fire extinguisher. |
A very good idea... |
I never, ever got stuck because of points over hundreds of thousands of miles, but recently helped someone who put one of those Pertronics modules in their newly acquired bug. It died within a month. Put it back to points and condenser and zero problems. Sometimes simpler is better.
As to the fire extinguishers, make sure it's a big one. The small ones will only make the fire mad at you. I know this from experience. Fortunately when I had an engine fire, I was right next to a business and I quickly borrowed one of theirs and it put the fire out. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9696 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:23 am Post subject: Re: 66 Bug restoration. Complete factory. Thoughts? |
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EVfun wrote: |
You might consider high backs seats and/or shoulder belts. Unfortunately headrests would eliminate stock looking front seats (stock ‘68 to early ‘70’s seats could be used). Shoulder belts should keep heads off the windshield in a frontal accident. |
I fully agree about using factory seats with the integrated headrests, but careful with those seat years... '68 & '69 had the wide headrests (bikesndbugs gallery)-
'70 - '72 had the narrower ones, which I find very attractive (Bob Brugge gallery)-
But- and this is critical- starting with the '71's the seat retaining tracks and thereby also the chassis' seat rails were modified for safety and seat retention (VolksBitz gallery). Your '66 has the seat rails as on the left.
So for your '66, the only years which will fit correctly will be '68 thru '70. The '70 seats are therefore a "one year only" but IMO worth the effort to find and redo because their headrest shapes are less bulky looking.
Additional safety suggestions:
1. Make sure your horn works per the steering wheel horn bar, and not by an aftermarket horn button on the dash. In a critical situation you want your fingers on the horn bar since at least one hand is always on the steering wheel. The 1 second time that it takes to move a hand from the wheel to the dash can be too late. And install a LOUD horn.
2. Develop a habit to turn the headlamps on as soon as you start off, especially in daylight. Activated low beams (H4 bulbs or LED conversions) provide effective "presence" of the car. I started doing this over 30 years ago when an idiot in a higher car turned into my lane while stopped on a 4-lane road and sideswiped my freshly painted Karmann Ghia. Told me later that "he did not see me". Sure, a Ghia is a much lower car than a Beetle, but the headlights are probably the same height off the ground. Seeing a speck of light before he turned into my lane might've avoided that accident. You could add a 12 V buzzer to the light switch as a "lights on" reminder after the ignition is off.
3. Already mentioned but most important so it's worth repeating: 3-point safety belts. Inertia reels are most convenient. Your '66 has factory bolt holes on the door post for the belt's upper mount. |
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