Lifter won't come out

[calo1956]

Great idea Mark, at least it will give me something to do and any progress is good progress, thanks again
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[calo1956]

You got me curious. I looked back through my records and indeed the lifter I changed last Nov, was the #3 opposite the one gone bad now. None of this is encouraging. Its raining out so doubtful ill be doing ant work unless it clears up some
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[MarkWard]

In general, you could take a high mileage air cooled engine, disassemble it, keep the lifters in order and reuse the cam an lifters on reassembly without concern assuming no unusual wear.

When you mix new lifters with old cam. New cam with old lifters, new lifters with new cam, etc, Cam break in is very important. There is also the question of the quality of replacement lifters, cam lobe hardness, new lifter hardness etc. Not trying to sound doomsday, but your situation is only the second one that comes to mind in my years on the Samba.

Also not to start a which oil is better debate, you should be using oil with a high zinc. This is especially important for the lifter to lobe faces. Hope I am wrong.

If you have a dial indicator, with some aggravation you could measure cam lift and compare lobe lift to each other.
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[markswagen]

l agree with mark, you could be looking at a flat cam lobe.
so, when you changed in a new lifter, did you run in the new lifter, lifter need 20 minutes or so of 2000 rpm to get them hot and harden them to the shape of the cam.
if you don't do that you can quite easily wear through the bottom of a lifter, as the cam lobe is VERY hard, the base of the lifter is not nearly as hard, the harder material always wins.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[calo1956]

Well Mark and Mark, Im not gonna lie to you When i did the one lifter last Nov I did not follow the break in procedure. I did pull that lifter out( #3) today, from the untrained eye it looks exactly as it did when I put it in. I do use Lucas High Zinc Oil. Hopefully if my tool comes before dark, I will try it. I will say the #3 came right out with the Magnet . Thanks you both for your wisdom.
Oh yea I looked at the cam through #3 with the scope, but what do I know it looked shiny and like a lobe,lol
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[MarkWard]

Can’t tell much from the picture. Remember I’m on my tiny phone. I’d have to use a dial indicator and measure all 4 lobes and compare. It does still look pointy. In other words not flattened.

Have you disassembled the stuck lifter? Maybe some shrapnel is sticking out an oil hole. I think you can safely do that, but have a magnet handy.
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[calo1956]

I have not yet, it was dark when I got the tool, i will gently try tomorrow
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[markswagen]

it is extremely difficult to tell from that angle, although it does look OK apart from hat ever is in the red circle, is that a reflection, or is that a lump chewed out of the cam.

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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[calo1956]

I thing its just a reflection. I looked extensively and it looked pristine
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[markswagen]

that's good to read.
if you have a straight edge, put it across the bottom of the lifter you took out of that hole.

[calo1956]

Will do Mark, but as I said it looks new i dont think theres any dishing on it, but I will check it, Thanks for your input Mark, its much appreciated
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[calo1956]

Hi Mark,
nothing exciting to report. I put the #3 lifter back in, still cant get the #1 out the puller was of no help, Im not going to force it. Im going to put it back together tomorrow and drive it some, then try again. If that doesnt work, I guess i have no choice but to pull the motor and split the case and see whats going on with it. I hate to do that, but I dont know what else to do....
P.S. The #3 lifter looks fine, no dishing.

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72 bug
80 westfalia

[markswagen]

this one might get other upset, what about heating the block ith a torch, and having another go at the lifter.
l'm not talking about excessive heat, normal engine running temperature + a little.
with that lobe at BDC can you at least move the lifter the distance of the lift of the cam lobe, does it rotate in it's bore.
noticing the chamfer around the edge of the one you have out, that stuck one, much be very well buggered to be stuck in there.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[IdahoDoug]

I had a stubborn lifter once, in fact several. Gave a metallic hitting sound as described above. I sprayed increasingly stronger stuff in and kept gently pushing n pulling. Eventually, the grundge ring began dissolving and it popped out. It progresses from the metallic sound to softer, and I resisted the temptation to try pulling it, worried the lifter might jam, the solvent would evaporate, and it would be stuck. So I kept patiently laying there for perhaps an hour making little back and forth movements. I think repeated sprays kept dissolving more and flowing it away, with the pumping action speeding the process. HTH
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[calo1956]

Thank Doug, Its worth a try, I put it back together started it, it didnt magically disappear ,lol. Im gonna drive it a bit then pull the rocker while it nice anr warm, and Ill give your method a try . What did you use? WD40? carb and choke cleaner? Im just trying to think what I would use.
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[calo1956]

Well Tuesday after everything was re assembled I ran the motor and got it good and warm, then shut it down and pulled the rocker and pushrod tube, the lifter moved very easily back and forth the half a inch that it moves but still no luck coming out. I tries spraying WD40 in there, no help, shot some oil in there no help. Thats where I stand today. Raining all day so I have nothing new to report...
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[calo1956]

Solved.... Thank you all for your help. Four days of trying to get the lifter out and finally determined i got it out. no evidence of why it was stuck, and the new lifter just slid right in. I buttoned it up and it was quiet as a mouse. I drove it for 35 min if any Harding was needed, it was done.
Now on to the countless other projects! But its so awesome to be driving that good old van van once again....
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72 bug
80 westfalia

[DanHoug]

did you use the slide hammer grabber tool or just a magnet? congrats! good feeling to have that done. and it was good to be cautious and not just muscle it out.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[calo1956]

I worked it without the slide hammer part on the tool back and forth, back and forth and it was going a little bit further slowly ( I had put the assembly back together so i could warm op the motor) I kept at it spraying WD40, and squirting oil in as wetland all of a sudden it came half way out. At that point I put the slide hammer back on the tool, and two gentle slaps and it was out!
So the lifter was quiet dished out to the point that there was a pin hole in it, now I understand why it couldnt pump up. The last lifter i changed was the same, but came out with the magnet.
So another job done, many more jobs to do, but she is running sweet, and quiet! Thanks for everyone's help, and the extraction tool recommendation.
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[DanHoug]

Oh my. I’ve not seen one that bad!
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com