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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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The cup at the end of the rod in the tunnel should rotate CW/CCW along the axis of the rod and be able to slide forward and rearward.
The cup should NOT move up/down/left/right. Any play in these directions means the shift rod bushing or the bracket in the tunnel is worn. The rod is held firmly in place as it runs thru bushing mounted in a hole in the support bracket inside the tunnel. If the bushing is worn the rod is loosely held and becomes very hard to find gears when shifting. Here is a good pic showing how the rod is suspended:
Yes, I think the brace might be missing. That would certainly cause my shifting issues, along with that bar being broken off!
Any ideas on how to remove / replace that piece? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| glennj3cub wrote: |
| Correct me if I’m wrong but if the disk does not fit below the crescent spring loaded piece, it won’t be pulled up. But then I don’t understand what the purpose is anyway. |
After watching the video once more I agree with you. The crescent piece prevents the trigger from being pulled while in the 3-4 gate.
| glennj3cub wrote: |
| The part that broke off seems to be a guard that keeps it from going into reverse unless I pull up on the shifter. ?? |
Yes. Just be sure when you attach it there is enough space to allow the shifter to slide into the 1-2 gate while still allowing the disc to clear crescent piece.
I really think you will need to weld it or use some type of very strong bonding agent (epoxy?). The disc will hit this lock out plate each time you look for 1st or 2nd. Maybe even consider drilling two holes and attaching it with screws+nuts or rivets?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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I just looked and the shift bushing is gone. The clip is there.
I looked at a u tube video on replacing it but my Super beetle does not have a hole up front to slide the shift bar out through.
How is this performed?? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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There is an access plate in the frame head up front. You can see the rectangular opening in the frame head in the below pic after the access plate is removed.
Once you remove it the rod can be slid forward far enough to clear the bracket below the shifter. Once the rod is out of the bracket, pop a new bushing+clip into the bracket then slide the rod back thru the opening in the bracket. Grease it up well to ensure ease of install and smooth operation.
If you can take the entire rod out it can be cleaned before reinstall. My rod was well rusted so I ran some sandpaper over it to smooth it some so it would slide thru the bushing easier. Spend some time cleaning at least the area where it will rest inside the bushing. This area should be as smooth as possible.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| Thanks, I’ll get under there to look today! |
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empi3
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2015
Posts: 347
Location: SW Wyoming
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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What's wrong with this picture?
Steven
_________________
The fact someone posts a thousand messages a month does not mean the messages contain anything worth reading.
Bob Hoover
1970 Beetle
1956 Ragtop Beetle |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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So this bushing is in backwards?
I’ll post pictures but the front of my Super Beetle does not have a hole visible to remove my shift rod. I may have to remove that ac radiator looking thing?
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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I managed to remove the blower and tore out the metal housing which presented the hole with the shifter rod.
Now I will have to cut or bend the wend jammer in order to completely remove the rod!
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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I got the shaft removed today! I made a front tunnel cover since mine didn’t have one. Does anyone know what size bolts I’ll need.
The Duckman called them 10 MM but I don’t know what thread they would be!
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cyclehobby
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2013
Posts: 156
Location: North Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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With all due respect, I have a 3 year old Empi trigger shift that adjusted and works perfectly.
I can also say that the Empi versions of the old Hurst shifter do not compare well from a quality perspective. But they're not that bad as long as:
You ensure your shift rod bushing is new and properly greased
You ensure your shift rod connection to the transaxle is is proper working order
You properly grease the Empi shifter and patiently take the time to adjust it per the instructions you can find in many places on the Samba.
My Bug's stock shifter works great, but I (personally) did not like the long throw between shifts and installing a short shifter kit on the stock unit didn't feel good to me. For $50, the Empi unit has worked great for more than 3,000 miles.
If I ever needed to replace the Empi shifter (and according to many comments, that may happen shortly) will I buy another one? Probably not. But I will surely buy another, perhaps better quality (and more expensive) short shifter. I'll keep everyone posted, but so far (knock on a wooden shift knob) the Empi is working well.
_________________
1967 Beetle
Northern NJ |
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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Good to hear. While I’m waiting for the bushing to arrive I plan to remove the rear wheel bearings to check & grease them.
My shifter has been repaired (by me) hoping it holds up & gets adjusted correctly. I’ll look for posts on how to check it.
I happened to find the correct bolt (8. . |
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glennj3cub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2020
Posts: 262
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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Glad to get the shift bushing in followed by a new shift part in the rear.
I oiled & greased the EMPI shifter ( recall that it was broke & used JB Weld , it worked great). I drove her on the road today and I was so impressed with how it felt!
Question, I saw 2 holes below the tunnel and want to seal them off. Is there a particular size grommet I need? |
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raul.jasso.garcia
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| glennj3cub wrote: |
How to shift gears??
...
I’m not sure how it’s supposed to feel not running but I can’t really tell it goes into reverse.
|
The reverse lockout gate when lifted with the trigger while in neutral allows the shifter to move further to the left then pull it towards you (down) while holding to the left. Look at the "H" pattern on the dash and you'll see what I mean.
It definitely feels different than shifting into 2nd gear.
If the shifter grinds when shifting down from 3rd, or 4th then the gate isn't locking out access to reverse gear. I had this happen to me after a year with this shifter.
Upon inspection I found the spring clip was missing and not holding down the gate and it slid out of the rear slot allowing the shifter to move to far to the left and grinding in reverse when I thought I was shifting into 2nd.
Here is my solution to the problem; I added a coil spring at top center of the gate to hold down the gate. I cut 2 slots in the gate to hold the spring in place, in hind sight I would have put 2 springs just over the dimples in the gate plate and will probably do that at a later date.
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71DBUG
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2024
Posts: 19
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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I realize this is an old thread but I am relatively new to old bugs and learning a lot from you kind people.
Restoring a 71 Standard Beetle, new everything for the most part including motor and Transaxle. I bought one of these EMPI shifters thinking the reverse lockout trigger was a nice feature.
Question. If this Shifter has its own reverse lockout, is the stock lockout Shifter plate necessary too? I can't seem to locate a clear answer on that and it seems to me if the Shifter has its own lockout function the stock Shifter plate wouldn't be necessary. Am I right or wrong?
I have dorked around with this Shifter for hours and I cannot for the life of me get the Transaxle shifted into reverse. If memory serves, using a stock Shifter you basically pull it left, push down and pull back to get it into reverse. I cannot get this Shifter to even remotely feel like it's getting into the reverse position. I've tried all of the suggestions regarding moving the Shifter, snugging the bolts, loosening, moving the Shifter, snugging down, not getting anywhere. I believe I can get it into 1-4, just not reverse. Again, new Transaxle, new Shifter coupler, new shift rod bushing, all of it.
The car is not yet running, no wiring installed yet, just trying to get all of the underside parts installed before I put it on the ground and start installing the harness etc. I got the throttle cable working (I believe) and the heater levers and cables functioning, now messing around with this Shifter to see if I can get the Transaxle into all gears and not having any luck so far. Starting to agree with some opinions on here that these EMPI shifters are junk. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:39 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| 71DBUG wrote: |
| Question. If this Shifter has its own reverse lockout, is the stock lockout Shifter plate necessary too? I can't seem to locate a clear answer on that and it seems to me if the Shifter has its own lockout function the stock Shifter plate wouldn't be necessary. Am I right or wrong? |
You are correct. Since the reverse lock out is built into the Empi shifter the stock reverse lock out plate below the shifter is not needed and should be removed. The Empi shifter base mounts directly to the center tunnel.
| 71DBUG wrote: |
| I have dorked around with this Shifter for hours and I cannot for the life of me get the Transaxle shifted into reverse. If memory serves, using a stock Shifter you basically pull it left, push down and pull back to get it into reverse. I cannot get this Shifter to even remotely feel like it's getting into the reverse position. |
If you have the stock shifter I would reinstall it and confirm you can get thru all the gears including reverse. Just to confirm the transmission shift mechanism is working. The “H” pattern is created by the shifter hockey stick in the nose of the transmission. Actually all gates of the shifter are created by the hockey stick moving between the three shift rods in the transmission and moving these back and forth. Disconnected from the shift rod the shifter itself will move in all directions (circular) only limited by the reverse lockout plate. Once you confirm the transmission shifts properly with the stock shifter you can move to the Empi shifter.
Test the Empi shifter outside the tunnel. The shifter should move freely in all directions except where it hits the stop plates on either side. You can see this as you look into the mechanism normally hidden by the boot. Lift the trigger and note the right side plate that moves up. This allows the bottom ball to move further right than it normally could. This is how the shifter enters the reverse gate (bottom ball moves right when the top of the shifter is moved left).
With the transmission in neutral, install the Empi shifter. Snug the two bolts that hold it down to the tunnel but leave them loose enough that you can move the base around. Feel the shifter move thru the H-pattern. Apply light left pressure to the top of the shifter and feel the shifter ball ride the lock out plate along the right side. Pull up on the trigger to lift the lock out plate and feel the top of the shifter slide into the reverse gate. Apply rightward pressure to the shifter base so it is as far into the reverse gate as it can go. When the top of the shift is far left the ball is far right. Snug down the two hold down bolts. Run thru all the gears making sure you can get into reverse as well as 3rd & 4th gears. If you find now you cannot find 3rd & 4th gears you may need to slide the base left slightly until you can find a sweet spot which allows the shifter to find both the reverse gate as well as the 3/4 gate.
Two things to consider. It may be necessary to wallow out the holes in the shifter base to allow the entire shifter to slide more right to get deeper into the reverse gate. This is not normally needed and I would check the shift coupler at the rear to make sure it looks identical to the stock unit. If the tolerances in the coupler are too loose you may not get the range of motion you need.
Last, my Empi shifter had an issue with the reverse lock out trigger being too loose. It allowed the moving gate to drop too low. So low that the ball was above to move part way into the reverse gate even without lifting up on the trigger. I added a shim below the trigger to hold it up by about 1mm . This was just enough to lift the gate so it made proper contact with the ball. The proper fix would have been to tear the shifter apart and shorten the steel wire connecting the plate to the trigger. This or a similar tolerance problem may be what you are running into.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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71DBUG
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2024
Posts: 19
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| 71DBUG wrote: |
| Question. If this Shifter has its own reverse lockout, is the stock lockout Shifter plate necessary too? I can't seem to locate a clear answer on that and it seems to me if the Shifter has its own lockout function the stock Shifter plate wouldn't be necessary. Am I right or wrong? |
You are correct. Since the reverse lock out is built into the Empi shifter the stock reverse lock out plate below the shifter is not needed and should be removed. The Empi shifter base mounts directly to the center tunnel.
| 71DBUG wrote: |
| I have dorked around with this Shifter for hours and I cannot for the life of me get the Transaxle shifted into reverse. If memory serves, using a stock Shifter you basically pull it left, push down and pull back to get it into reverse. I cannot get this Shifter to even remotely feel like it's getting into the reverse position. |
If you have the stock shifter I would reinstall it and confirm you can get thru all the gears including reverse. Just to confirm the transmission shift mechanism is working. The “H” pattern is created by the shifter hockey stick in the nose of the transmission. Actually all gates of the shifter are created by the hockey stick moving between the three shift rods in the transmission and moving these back and forth. Disconnected from the shift rod the shifter itself will move in all directions (circular) only limited by the reverse lockout plate. Once you confirm the transmission shifts properly with the stock shifter you can move to the Empi shifter.
Test the Empi shifter outside the tunnel. The shifter should move freely in all directions except where it hits the stop plates on either side. You can see this as you look into the mechanism normally hidden by the boot. Lift the trigger and note the right side plate that moves up. This allows the bottom ball to move further right than it normally could. This is how the shifter enters the reverse gate (bottom ball moves right when the top of the shifter is moved left).
With the transmission in neutral, install the Empi shifter. Snug the two bolts that hold it down to the tunnel but leave them loose enough that you can move the base around. Feel the shifter move thru the H-pattern. Apply light left pressure to the top of the shifter and feel the shifter ball ride the lock out plate along the right side. Pull up on the trigger to lift the lock out plate and feel the top of the shifter slide into the reverse gate. Apply rightward pressure to the shifter base so it is as far into the reverse gate as it can go. When the top of the shift is far left the ball is far right. Snug down the two hold down bolts. Run thru all the gears making sure you can get into reverse as well as 3rd & 4th gears. If you find now you cannot find 3rd & 4th gears you may need to slide the base left slightly until you can find a sweet spot which allows the shifter to find both the reverse gate as well as the 3/4 gate.
Two things to consider. It may be necessary to wallow out the holes in the shifter base to allow the entire shifter to slide more right to get deeper into the reverse gate. This is not normally needed and I would check the shift coupler at the rear to make sure it looks identical to the stock unit. If the tolerances in the coupler are too loose you may not get the range of motion you need.
Last, my Empi shifter had an issue with the reverse lock out trigger being too loose. It allowed the moving gate to drop too low. So low that the ball was above to move part way into the reverse gate even without lifting up on the trigger. I added a shim below the trigger to hold it up by about 1mm . This was just enough to lift the gate so it made proper contact with the ball. The proper fix would have been to tear the shifter apart and shorten the steel wire connecting the plate to the trigger. This or a similar tolerance problem may be what you are running into. |
Thank you all for your help and apologies for the delayed response..work travel this week. I'll try this stuff out over the weekend |
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71DBUG
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2024
Posts: 19
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:49 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| 71DBUG wrote: |
I realize this is an old thread but I am relatively new to old bugs and learning a lot from you kind people.
Restoring a 71 Standard Beetle, new everything for the most part including motor and Transaxle. I bought one of these EMPI shifters thinking the reverse lockout trigger was a nice feature.
Question. If this Shifter has its own reverse lockout, is the stock lockout Shifter plate necessary too? I can't seem to locate a clear answer on that and it seems to me if the Shifter has its own lockout function the stock Shifter plate wouldn't be necessary. Am I right or wrong?
I have dorked around with this Shifter for hours and I cannot for the life of me get the Transaxle shifted into reverse. If memory serves, using a stock Shifter you basically pull it left, push down and pull back to get it into reverse. I cannot get this Shifter to even remotely feel like it's getting into the reverse position. I've tried all of the suggestions regarding moving the Shifter, snugging the bolts, loosening, moving the Shifter, snugging down, not getting anywhere. I believe I can get it into 1-4, just not reverse. Again, new Transaxle, new Shifter coupler, new shift rod bushing, all of it.
The car is not yet running, no wiring installed yet, just trying to get all of the underside parts installed before I put it on the ground and start installing the harness etc. I got the throttle cable working (I believe) and the heater levers and cables functioning, now messing around with this Shifter to see if I can get the Transaxle into all gears and not having any luck so far. Starting to agree with some opinions on here that these EMPI shifters are junk. |
Can you please explain the perspective of this photograph? From what I can see of the shifter it looks like the side exposed is facing the passenger side? On mine, if the shifter is positioned so that angle of the shifter tilts back like it would normally, this lift gate has to be facing the drivers side. I put the shifter in a vice and moved it thru its range of motion and if I pull the lockout trigger it allows the shifter to go into what would appear 4th gear, not reverse as the top of the shifter is all the way to the right (passenger side) and can be pulled down and in order to get the Shifter back to neutral I have to pull the trigger and it allows the Shifter to return to what appears to be neutral. There's also a piece (opposite side limit) on the side opposing the lift gate that appears to be bent and shifted out of position. The "shop" this car was in for 7 months (currently being sued by me) initially installed this shifter with the stock reverse lockout plate on the bottom. Looking to me like they have jacked this up somehow. |
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71DBUG
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2024
Posts: 19
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:51 am Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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| raul.jasso.garcia wrote: |
| glennj3cub wrote: |
How to shift gears??
...
I’m not sure how it’s supposed to feel not running but I can’t really tell it goes into reverse.
|
The reverse lockout gate when lifted with the trigger while in neutral allows the shifter to move further to the left then pull it towards you (down) while holding to the left. Look at the "H" pattern on the dash and you'll see what I mean.
It definitely feels different than shifting into 2nd gear.
If the shifter grinds when shifting down from 3rd, or 4th then the gate isn't locking out access to reverse gear. I had this happen to me after a year with this shifter.
Upon inspection I found the spring clip was missing and not holding down the gate and it slid out of the rear slot allowing the shifter to move to far to the left and grinding in reverse when I thought I was shifting into 2nd.
Here is my solution to the problem; I added a coil spring at top center of the gate to hold down the gate. I cut 2 slots in the gate to hold the spring in place, in hind sight I would have put 2 springs just over the dimples in the gate plate and will probably do that at a later date.
|
Can you please explain the perspective of this photograph? From what I can see of the shifter it looks like the side exposed is facing the passenger side? On mine, if the shifter is positioned so that angle of the shifter tilts back like it would normally, this lift gate has to be facing the drivers side. I put the shifter in a vice and moved it thru its range of motion and if I pull the lockout trigger it allows the shifter to go into what would appear 4th gear, not reverse as the top of the shifter is all the way to the right (passenger side) and can be pulled down and in order to get the Shifter back to neutral I have to pull the trigger and it allows the Shifter to return to what appears to be neutral. There's also a piece (opposite side limit) on the side opposing the lift gate that appears to be bent and shifted out of position. The "shop" this car was in for 7 months (currently being sued by me) initially installed this shifter with the stock reverse lockout plate on the bottom. Looking to me like they have jacked this up somehow |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Super Beetle EMPI Shifter |
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The above pic with the crescent shape is a view from the left side of the center tunnel.
Did you watch the YouTube video I posted earlier in this thread?
| ashman40 wrote: |
Found a good video that shows how the Hurst trigger shifter (which the Empi is patterned after) lockout works.
Link
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It shows how the crescent shape in the above pic acts as a blockage to prevent the trigger ring from being lifted while in the 3-4 gate.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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