1973 SB Horn not getting power

[JaxyWxy]

Hello all, first time poster, long time viewer.

I have slowly but surely been getting my 01/73 SB into running order, and have hit an roadblock that I can't seem to figure out regarding the horn.

Per photo 1, the wiring for the 1973 shows the ground going to the horn and the live wire (I think) going to the T leading to the dual circuit system on the master cylinder.

Photo 2 is for 1972, but shows is better and I marked it up for ease.

The ground is grounded out to the steering column, and the live wire goes to the T in my SB, and then to the dual circuit. But there seems to be no power getting to the horn. I have tried touching the live wire to the frame to see if it sparks (it doesn't).

The Horn itself works, as I tested it with some leads and the battery, and it does honk.

I replaced the master cylinder a year ago, but the horn did not work before that repair either. The brake warning light turns on with the key in the ignition, but I haven't turned the vehicle over since I got the light to work, so I do not know if it will turn off, which (if I am correct) would help me diagnose if the dual circuits are messed up.

The horn pad is separate from the steering wheel at the moment, and I replaced the turn signal switch lever when I was diagnosing my turn signals with a new one from Jbugs (which does look slightly different with the protruding brass contact being longer on the old one) but that is the only thing in that column that has changed. (https://www.jbugs.com/product/111953513F.html) And it doesn't really explain why there isn't power to the live wire. (Or does it?)

So I am at a loss, and am running out of ideas on what to do next. Any suggestions? Could the dual circuit switched on the master cylinder be backwards or shot? What am I missing?

Thanks!

[Tram]

Are the brake lights working?
Stupid question, but you are aware that the horn and brake lights are only powered with the key in the "run" position, correct?
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

[Bobnotch]

[JaxyWxy]

To answer both your questions. All lights, including brake lights, currently work on the vehicle (save the dome light). And I have tried with both the key turned to accessories and to run, and same result of nothing.

Edit: I have also checked for power while the vehicle is idling, and the same result has occurred of nothing.

[Tram]

[Bobnotch]

[JaxyWxy]

Pictures of the connector and the terminal for the yellow dashed wire that goes to the horn before I gave them a quick clean. They were in pretty good condition.

I also cleaned up the horn terminals, and unfortunately there still doesn't seem to be power getting to the hot wire, nor the horn.

And I certainly feel that sentiment Bobnotch!

[Tram]

Do you have power TO that horn wire? Seems you should as the horn and brake lights pull from the same fusebox terminal but maybe someone moved a wire.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

[Bobnotch]

Good point Tram, we all know how PO's like to change the wiring in these cars to"fix something" even if the fix doesn't fix it or causes another problem.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[JaxyWxy]

To clarify, do you mean at the connector or at the distal end of the wire on the horn itself?

The latter has no power, but I have not tested the former. I will give that a shot tomorrow or this weekend and see. Looking at the schematics, there is a black line that meets up with the yellow stripped line that goes to the connector. From what I remember, the line should be connected to the fusebox, but the type 3 rats nest is a whole other beast...

At this point I am not certain about how the current flows in this system either.

I know the PO had attempted to put a radio and two speakers into the car, and that wiring has baffled me, as well as a electric windshield spray motor, but that is disconnected.

We all know the PO wiring horror stories, and unfortunately this SB is no exception.

[JaxyWxy]

Good afternoon folks,]

Verdict is in that I am not getting power on the line that connects to the yellow wire going to the horn. It looks like that could be the issue here, though it is still odd that both brake lights and flashers work...

What are your thoughts on next steps?

[djfordmanjack]

I am not sure how things are hooked up on a 73, but usually ground is transferred to the (insulated) steering column, when the horn button is pushed. The horn wire is inside the steering shaft and grounded to the Hardy disc (rubber clutch) between steering shaft and steering gear. it is usually that connector that gets corroded badly and wont get good ground when pushed.
If your black/Yellow wire doesn't provide 12 V at horn, you need to check the wire and connectors.
I just repaired the horn in my 63 notch yesterday and it was all because of corroded terminals and connectors at the steering shaft.

worst case try lining a hot wire from the battery to the horn and see what it does. I strongly suspect the ground wires at fault.
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Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !

52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior

[Bobnotch]

[JaxyWxy]

[djfordmanjack]

Have you tried to use the horn while you step on the brakes and the brake lights are up ?
Maybe somebody put on new connectors and used the wrong brake light wire. Not the hot feed, but the one going to the brake lights.
_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !

52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior

[Bobnotch]

This is starting to sound like a ground issue in the steering column head. I know for 73 VW moved the power and ground wires to outside of the column head (the white push on connector at the base of the unit). You might want to test the wires at that connection, along with those coming from that connection per the wiring diagram.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[JaxyWxy]

[Bobnotch]

[JaxyWxy]

Alright, canceling ring certainly looks a little worn in spots. I'll order a new one to see if that helps at all.

[Bobnotch]

What does the 2 finger wiper that rubs against it look like? Is it even still there? Or does it have holes worn thru it?
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120