Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo

[rbolner]

One thing to check on MSD clones and CB Magnaspark distributors is under the rotor. It seems to bind a little with the mechanical advance. I got my new clone from Southwest performance on eBay for $75 and took it apart to check it out. Re-did the air gap and changed the springs and felt the advance not returning smoothly. Pics below are where they were binding on the cross castings. On the MSD clone rotor there was a nub from casting I cut off, on the CB rotor I shaved a little off the cross casting. The CB magnaspark is on my manx when I put the new motor in and it was kind of lazy and timing was odd if you know what I mean. Thought it was the heavy springs.

For jpaull, I'll be testing out the Intellitronix box and MSD 8253 coil at our next Drags in Feb. or March (rains alot in Hilo) to see if it will handle the lower mH of the coil. Tech guy said no lower than 4mH but I think it'll be ok as long as the spark plug gap is not to wide. Also, Ebay has 25ohm FAST spark plug wire sets. I got a V8 set for $25.
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[74 Thing]

I have 2 random questions:

1. Have you ever been shocked by a cdi, eg pull the spark plug wire when the car is running to check for a plugged idle jet or something and you got zapped?. How does that compare to getting shocked from a 110v household socket, eg plugging in something and your finger hits the prong? I got shocked the other week from the CDI and I expected more. Obviously that is not a good test for the power output, but just curious. The spark was firing from the plug wire to the dist car a good two inches and it was very bright white in color.

2. Why do some cdi's have a power and a negative wire that are both supposed to connect directly to the battery per the instructions while others just have a ground wire and a 12v switch wire?

[67rustavenger]

74_Thing, If you go back and review this thread. JPaull got zapped by KingVW's coil while bench testing it. That looked like it hurt.

As an example to your wiring question. The Crane Hi6N CDI uses power and ground directly to the battery and switched power when the ignition is activated.
There is no power draw from the battery when the ignition is off.

I realize this doesn't answer your question as to why they are wired differently, but I would assume it has to do with different manufacturers power and grounding requirements.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Fred Winterburn]

Most CDIs use a high frequency power supply to charge the capacitor. That type doesn't need a heavy power wire directly from the battery. The old MSD 6A used to charge the capacitor in one shot, IE one quarter cycle so MSD put two big transistors in parallel and wired the collectors directly to the battery. That system has the advantage of being almost immune to increases in rpm as the charging time is so short to begin with. Fred

[74 Thing]

So it has to do with the capacitor and how it is charged. Thanks.

[jpaull]

RBolner, Great catch on the caps needing clearance for the advance. I remember doing that same thing to a few. Its a great reminder to check functionality of aftermarket parts.

That intellitronix and 8253 HVC2 coil should be a very interesting combo. Glad your giving it a try.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[jpaull]

[jpaull]

[74 Thing]

Thanks for the explanation.

[rbolner]

Howzit guys. Well I had a chance to try out the Intellitronics ignition box but only a few runs as weather for us hasn't been great for drags. I did try it out with the MSD 8253 coil but wouldn't recommend it. It didn't shut the box down but while running it the light indicator blinks red (should be green) which means it senses a problem with it not being compatible. It did still run the same ET's but seemed retarded and grunty sounding. Wasn't smooth or clean. When I first started it, cranked right up with touch of the key and seemed really good, but after that, longer to start and engine got hot quick. I swapped the coil to a Flamethrower 3 ohm canister and back to normal. Green light blinking, quick revs and smooth like my old wasted spark Compu-troncs DIS system. Only got five runs and played with timing. Nothing changed. I will try the Crane box next time as my F.A.S.T. coil finally came in (PS92N) We did have fun though. Below is a pic of my rusty beeter.

[jpaull]

Rbolner, Awesome picture of your car on 2 wheels!! Thats awesome!

Those guys at intellitronix were not joking when they said 4mH inductance or higher. That 8253 is 3.5mH, that fact that it gives you the red blinking light for being .5mH over its threshold is surprising.

A Blaster SS is 6.9 and would be a great match, its way more efficient then the 8202 they recommended, also longer spark duration, more peak current, and its still way over their 4mH inductance limit so it should be safe. Im suprised they recommended a 8202 before, as its a 8.0 inductance, less efficient, leak peak output, less spark duration.

The Crane/Fast box and the PS92 will be a nice combo. you can use the blue MSD 8253 for that box as well.

Love the Trans Raise in your bug, i bet that helps! What are your engine specs? How did you do for times?
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[rbolner]

Thanks jpaull for the reply. Thought you were busy moving. I do have the i91 coil to go with the Intellitronics box, just wanted to see if I could make that box shut down and reset itself. That is THE first time I ever spent money on an MSD product and I've been doing this for awhile. Yes, that's the normal launch for me. I run a 4.37 R&P, most people won't. Below is a pic few weeks ago where I got out of the groove a little. Almost same gearing as yours but with a 1.44 3rd and 1.13 4th. It has a Ron Lummus trans mount that I cut and drilled for a 2 inch raise cause the Lummus mount is a lot taller than most. The engine is a 2276 with first gen. Comp eliminators, ports never ported, k800 springs, 9 to 1 with a fk46. Usually runs 11.90's at 110mph but I ran four 12.1's, and a 12.2 because I tried 28 on the timing. Thought it was me messing with the ignition, but I had a compression leak that I couldn't hear so I got new barrels to put in and maybe I'll fly cut the heads a little. Should be back to normal at the next drags. Some of us are coming up to see Hot Vw's Drag day at Irwindale this weekend so I'll be looking for some spare cylinder heads to bring back if I find something I like, if not i'm looking at the mini wedge port from CB. Should be a blast with those Real Street cars there. Hope the swap meet is a good one like the Sacramento one use to be in May. Thanks, Race

[jpaull]

Rbolner, thats a awesome picture!! 11.90's with only 9;1 compresssion is a pretty awesome accomplishment with a all motor setup . Bumping the compression would be a nice move to help even more.

I also love that your testing the limits on the ignition, it helps tell more about the capabilities and limitations.

On the heads, going from Comp E's to just the mini wedgeports would be pretty conservative swap. That FK46 would be screaming for some Wedgeports.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[rbolner]

Yes, still debating. Wanted something with more airspeed than big flow numbers, like the old Fumio's. My motor doesn't make power at a high rpm, but that's probably a different forum. Kinda getting off the Budget build subject. Maybe I'll do some pm's to some of you guys instead to update my results with what I have going on. I might put the fk10 in. Pat Downs had some great results with that cam and different heads. When I talked to Dan Ruddick last year, he does comparisons on cam lobes up to .030 lift off the lobe. The FK series are pretty quick. That's probably where I'm losing a few MPH due to some valve float. Should be 112, 113mph.

[Dan Ruddock]

[rbolner]

Howzit Dan, forgive me for miss spelling your name. Yeah, they usually last about a year. I run a Stage 2 Kennedy and a rag disc Exedy 503 or 503A depending on running torque. If I can get it to move hanging on a breaker bar I'll run it. 503 slips a little more than the 503A so I might shim the pressure plate for a few runs on the 503A. After that I just keep an ear on it till it gets to noisy. Kinda backyardish but it works for me. Not sure if you remember our phone conversation about your valve train products and the FK46 I'm running. You said I should get a rev limiter. Maybe I should get a Tach to go with it.

[rbolner]

Morning guys, well I got a chance to run the I got a chance to run the FAST coil (FAST I91 Inductive Ignition Coil) with the INTELLITRONICS box yesterday and turns out to be a REALLY GOOD match up. You can't go wrong with this set up. Touch of the key starting, quick response, higher revving and so much smoother especially at higher rpms. I know cause I was hitting the built-in rev limiter (set at 7400) in the burn out, off the line and between gears. I think that's why I couldn't do better than 11.90's (got my new cylinders in, back to 160psi) So not bad for $209 for the box and $90 for the coil, $75 for the distributor, around $20 for wires and $12 bucks for plugs. I think if you can run that same FAST coil with the CB Magnaspark ready to run kit that would be great for $300 bucks. I have one so I might do some testing. I did win yesterday so I paid for some of that stuff

[jpaull]

[rbolner]

Thanks jpaull. I'm cheating a little with slicks, a stinger and some half and half gas mix. I could run straight pump gas cause the heads are only around 230 degrees after a run using an infrared temp gauge. It is alot more fun with wheels up action. My wife took some video, not sure where I could put it. I did talk to CB about running a different coil with the Magnaspark and they said the same thing. His words were "to hot" of a coil. Didn't say how low you could go but, you could just put a cd box on it.