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dgsaz Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008 Posts: 579 Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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It's a shame Aircooled.net is no longer in business.
I used their L-3 heads, 1.4 ratio rockers, pre cut pushrods that only worked if you were replacing stock rocker arms with 1.4s.
They fit and worked great.
I'm sure the heads made more of a difference than the ratio rockers.
I added a pair of IDF 40's to the stock internals 1776 and the combo is sooooo
much stronger than when it was a single port.
Dub Dyno gives it 89.9 HP based on this combo.
dgsaz |
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RickS Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005 Posts: 430 Location: Speonk, NY
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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dgsaz wrote: |
It's a shame Aircooled.net is no longer in business.
I used their L-3 heads, 1.4 ratio rockers, pre cut pushrods that only worked if you were replacing stock rocker arms with 1.4s.
They fit and worked great.
I'm sure the heads made more of a difference than the ratio rockers.
I added a pair of IDF 40's to the stock internals 1776 and the combo is sooooo
much stronger than when it was a single port.
Dub Dyno gives it 89.9 HP based on this combo.
dgsaz |
Why are you repeating yourself? |
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Scrapefest Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 35
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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MuzzcoVW wrote: |
Sorry, didn't mean to say you did.. it's just something I mention for those not in the know. For me, I LOVE the CB 2280 cam. I despise high RPM only engines and have had great luck with these in smaller engines. Over cammed busses are super annoying to drive. Something like the 2280 is better for torque and slightly increased RPM range. I'm currently building a 1776 for myself with one and 8.5:1 compression. You could also look at the 2232. Been thinking of trying one after hearing great reviews, but I run F.I. on everything I have so it may be too much |
Yes I was looking at the CB group1 cams , the 2280 seems to have a lot more duration than the others , do you run it in a bus.
It looks like CB has a long lead time for cams which is a shame . |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1477 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Scrapefest wrote: |
MuzzcoVW wrote: |
Sorry, didn't mean to say you did.. it's just something I mention for those not in the know. For me, I LOVE the CB 2280 cam. I despise high RPM only engines and have had great luck with these in smaller engines. Over cammed busses are super annoying to drive. Something like the 2280 is better for torque and slightly increased RPM range. I'm currently building a 1776 for myself with one and 8.5:1 compression. You could also look at the 2232. Been thinking of trying one after hearing great reviews, but I run F.I. on everything I have so it may be too much |
Yes I was looking at the CB group1 cams , the 2280 seems to have a lot more duration than the others , do you run it in a bus.
It looks like CB has a long lead time for cams which is a shame . |
I run it in bugs, but it's great for a bus. The 2280 actually has less than some, look at the .050 number. I think it's advertised right now as about 224 degrees. I use it in my factory fuel injected engines and it works great... IF you get the compression up. It isn't nearly as impressive at stock compression |
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Scrapefest Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 35
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Thanks for the replies, it is good to see people are successfully using 1.4 rockers with stock cams , dub Dyno shows they give better low end torque than the other mild cams but as people say it would be the more expensive way to do it, in the UK there is limited choice and a big mark up on performance parts.
I was tempted to try a CB cam but the lead time will mean I won't have time to build the engine before European Bug In in June. So I will have a think whether to use the w100 or wait and keep an eye out for a deal on some 1.4 rockers. 😁 |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13283 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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its also good knowledge for anyone buying one of those out of the box empi motors - they have 1776 and 1914cc long blocks with stock cams |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3296 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Just a heads up......if you are planning to slap 1.4 rockers on a stock cam, you will also need to swap to better valve springs. If you don't, and you try to peel out in the rain, and rev it kinda high, the weak stock springs will launch one or more of your push rods out, and you will need to find a ride.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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Scrapefest Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 35
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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MuzzcoVW wrote: |
I run it in bugs, but it's great for a bus. The 2280 actually has less than some, look at the .050 number. I think it's advertised right now as about 224 degrees. I use it in my factory fuel injected engines and it works great... IF you get the compression up. It isn't nearly as impressive at stock compression |
I was looking at the 274° .
Is that 1970's fuel injection or Mexi Bug. |
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Scrapefest Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 35
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Brian_e wrote: |
Just a heads up......if you are planning to slap 1.4 rockers on a stock cam, you will also need to swap to better valve springs. If you don't, and you try to peel out in the rain, and rev it kinda high, the weak stock springs will launch one or more of your push rods out, and you will need to find a ride.
Brian |
Do you think HD single springs are enough. |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3296 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Scrapefest wrote: |
Brian_e wrote: |
Just a heads up......if you are planning to slap 1.4 rockers on a stock cam, you will also need to swap to better valve springs. If you don't, and you try to peel out in the rain, and rev it kinda high, the weak stock springs will launch one or more of your push rods out, and you will need to find a ride.
Brian |
Do you think HD single springs are enough. |
Yes _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1477 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Scrapefest wrote: |
MuzzcoVW wrote: |
I run it in bugs, but it's great for a bus. The 2280 actually has less than some, look at the .050 number. I think it's advertised right now as about 224 degrees. I use it in my factory fuel injected engines and it works great... IF you get the compression up. It isn't nearly as impressive at stock compression |
I was looking at the 274° .
Is that 1970's fuel injection or Mexi Bug. |
1975 German with LJetronic system |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7229 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Stock cam with 1.4 rockers or mild cam |
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Some 20 years ago we did a good deal of testing regarding bolt on tuning on a stock 1600. Back then it was still possible to find a fresh 1600 to soup up a little.
On our dyno: 300 rpm/sec climb. SAE60 calibration.
A stock 1600 with a Bugpack 1 3/8" header and VW 1,25 rockers (1,23 IRL) 56 hp 115 Nm.
Same engine with Scat 1,4 rockers, 58 hp 112 Nm torque.
Same engine with 34 mm ICT carbs and 1,4 rockers. 74 hp 115 Nm torque. A good deal of rpm power, but not that much usable torque.
Another new 1600 engine. Out of the box 044 Gen 1 heads. 40 x 35 mm valves. 8-1 CR. 1,4 rockers. Dual Spanish 40 mm IDF. 1½" Quiet pack exh. 78 hp 122 Nm torque.
Another 1600 with some miles on it. Honed cylinders, new rings. Optimized deck, 3 angle seat job. 8-1 CR stock carb. 1 3/8" Bugpack exhaust. 59 hp 120 Nm torque.
Another completely rebuilt 1600. All balanced, 565 gr. rods, tight deck, good valve & seat job, touched chambers, 8,2-1 CR. 1,25/1,1 rockers, 27 mm venturi in stock carb. Leistritz stock muffler. 65 hp 120 Nm torque. Nice driver with a little extra hill power.
Another 1600. Stock internals, optimized deck, 3 angle valve & seat job. 8,1 CR, 1,25/1,1 rockers, 009, dual 36 mm Dellorto´s, Sebring muffler. 71 hp 132 Nm torque.
Another 1600. All balanced stock internals. Optimized deck. 545 gr rods. Optimized deck, very detailed stock 113 heads, 8,5 - 1CR. 1,25 rockers, 123 BT dizzy w. HV E core coil, dual 36 mm IDF, CSP Super Comp exhaust. 88 hp 150 Nm torque. It is awesome for what it is.
The L-jet is relatively easy to pull significantly better power out of if the engine can breathe. The first 80 hp is a walk in the park. From there it begins to get a little complicated. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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