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Dan_Lockwood Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2023 Posts: 188 Location: Clare MI
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:51 am Post subject: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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I did a quick search on this subject and not much came up.
I have all my buggy in sand blast state at the moment and getting ready to weld in the top beam adjuster. Now would be a GREAT time to make the extra effort to weld up the spot welded seams on the towers... BUT?
I did find some reference on the Internet to this, and the guy had a terrible time welding them up and they looked like crap.
Mine have some "air" gaps here and there and are truly solid, no rust.
Any thoughts on this procedure?
Thanks in advance, Dan |
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Schepp Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2020 Posts: 78 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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It wont be pretty but it'll be a lot stronger than before. You can also add a gusset/brace to the shock towers if you'd like at this point.
Since yours is blasted and clean you should have less problems than most. Many of the problems with welding are due to poor surface prep. |
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Daddy o's 67 Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2008 Posts: 118 Location: Lancaster, SC
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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Class 11 racers weld the seams on their beams and added extra metal to the shock tower to reinforce area between the upper & lower beam and at the top where shock stud fastens on a ball joint beam.
Here's a good youtube video on building a Class 11 Beam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JefR9mAYM |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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Ive seen guys do this but considering I am a body man by trade ive dealt with spot welds for decades and from an experience standpoint , a spot weld is waaaay stronger than a welded seam. I dont see welding the seam adding any significant amount of strength to what the spot welds provide. Not to mention , how much strength is a stock shock tower supposed to need? Isn’t your a ball joint beam? _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1636 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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I welded my seam all around, and added gussets from the shock towers to the top tube. Im not sure it was necessary, but couldnt hurt. Dont think you need to weld it completely, maybe some inch long beads at a few places, and the gussets. Not sure what difference wether a ball joint or link. They can both be jumped, or run over rough terrain. |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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I mentioned balljoint because balljoint doesn't typically get converted to coilovers like a KP , so the shock towers of a BJ beam would only be supporting a shock _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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Dan_Lockwood Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2023 Posts: 188 Location: Clare MI
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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BFB wrote: |
Ive seen guys do this but considering I am a body man by trade ive dealt with spot welds for decades and from an experience standpoint , a spot weld is waaaay stronger than a welded seam. I dont see welding the seam adding any significant amount of strength to what the spot welds provide. Not to mention , how much strength is a stock shock tower supposed to need? Isn’t your a ball joint beam? |
I'm not too worried about strength as much as sealing up all the potential air gaps to collect moisture inside the shock tower.
I watched the video on the Class 11 beam upgrade and they too, decided to NOT weld the seams as it was very difficult to do for some reason. This is what I had heard before. I haven't tried it yet, but was thinking that one might just TIG the two plates together without filler rod and let them melt into one on the lip.
I guess I could use some finger applied seam sealer to the two halves and then paint over that.
Thanks, Dan |
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DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 548
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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The only way your going to damage or bend the shock tower with stock shocks is if you stuff the front end going way to fast. You wont care at that point, and in the hospital with a broken back and or neck. |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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^^^ agree. Also i dont see any point in sealing it, hasn’t been sealed for 40 years so why do it now? If anything id drill a couple small drain holes in the bottom of the towers. Again, as a body guy , ive seen more rust from improper drainage than from things just getting wet. _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2678 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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I've done two beams the way you're thinking so far. I don't know what happened to all my pictures because I used to take a ridiculous amount of pictures of everything I did. That was back when the Samba was more fun and less bickering. But anyway, here is a shot to show what it can come out looking like. I had a lot of the same concerns as Dan despite the amazing ability i observed of original VW suspension parts not rusting.
Dan, you know, prep work is all. You gotta make sure all that old paint or gook that might be between the seam is removed. I used a lot of degreasers and sand blasted the crap out of it. Back then I was also treating everything with POR 51 so it got the pre treat spray put on it. The element that's in it is escaping me right now. So here's a pic from 20 years ago after I had painted it. You can look at any of my recent pics and see this still looks just as good.
Just so you know, I did leave that little drain open thats at the bottom of the seam under the bottom tube to allow moisture that might get in to have a way out. I smoothed it all out so you could barely tell it had been welded.
_________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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Dan_Lockwood Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2023 Posts: 188 Location: Clare MI
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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Brian,
Thanks for the picture.
I know that there are many different frames over the decades, but the front couple feet of yours looks just like mine.
Here's a picture or two of my POS buggy as I bought it.
Keep in mind that the person before my seller tried to stretch the frame 18" and did a very poor job of it. In my rebuild so far, I've kept the lower frame tubes all the way back to the rear suspension torsion housing. The top frame rails that go from the front to the rear engine loop, have been cut off right at the driver's seat area. All of the rear has been made new and all the top tubes have been replaced as well. I couldn't ever get into this buggy when I bought it, just sure can now...
Thanks for the picture again, looks great!
Thanks, Dan |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2678 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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If i may Dan, one thing, and maybe your already planning on this, one thing I would make sure to do is put some triangulation behind that windshield. Heaven forbid if that ever flipped over, it would fold up like a piece of paper. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2678 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Dan_Lockwood Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2023 Posts: 188 Location: Clare MI
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
If i may Dan, one thing, and maybe your already planning on this, one thing I would make sure to do is put some triangulation behind that windshield. Heaven forbid if that ever flipped over, it would fold up like a piece of paper. |
Brian,
None of the upper yellow tubing exist anymore, all gone! I now have new upper tubing and shoulder harness cross tubes just behind the front and rear seats. I will put in some forward triangulation bracing on the windshield frame of the new upper hoops.
I still need to start a "build" thread of my buggy. I've done tons of work so far, but have lots more to do.
I came down with Bell's Palsy 6-months ago and have recovered about 90% so far. My left eye is still giving me a bit of a problem and it seems to be affecting my welding quite a bit. I've not welded much in the past 20 years and am getting back to it now. But I have issues tracking the weld arc along the joint to be welded. I go off track easily. So I've tack welded all my tubing into place and still need to clean up some of my tacks and then probably have one of my friends weld it up for me. I'd rather say I'm having issues than have an unsafe buggy.
But as to the comment about bracing, there really are not hard fast rules as to how much is enough or where to put them. I do have an eye for some of this and can probably get it "safe" for my use purpose.
Thanks for the input!
Dan |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2678 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Welding Front Beam Tower Seams??? |
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I figured as much. A man can get carried away putting bracing in his buggy. That's what happened to me. I used to love notching tube and tiggin it in. Gettin old aint for the faint of heart, though. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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